The Jena 6: Photo of Justin Barker’s Injuries
September 4, 2007 by Laura | Trackback URI
I just found this photo in the CNN article Residents: Nooses spark school violence, divide town, and my first thought was, “You have GOT to be kidding me. A felony conviction for THIS?” I knew Reed Walters didn’t have any serious medical testimony to back him up, but I figured the photos had to be sufficiently gory for the jury to come back with that verdict. How anyone can look at this photo and think “beaten half to death” or “stomped on face” or any of the other rhetoric that has been thrown around so liberally is beyond me.
Seriously, future comments where I see someone going on an on about these dire injuries and “bleeding out his ears,” I’m deleting it. I don’t care who it’s from or whether there is anything else of value in the comment. Whether the writer intends it or not, it’s a lie, and this photo proves it. And don’t give me the whole “$12,000 in medical bills,” either. Over half of that was the ambulance ride, ER and CT scan, and the rest was probably for more expensive testing in a desperate attempt to justify these excessive charges. I’ll put the best possible face on it and suggest it was CYA for the doctors or “concerned parent” medical overkill. That, or they flew him to the Mayo Clinic. Jeez. What utter crap. This really makes me mad.
I would...
Like an aging monument, democracy itself is crumbling.
This trial is completely insane. The kid got beat up.. a lot of people do in high school. It doesn’t make it right but it happens. Its not even a bad beating. Whoever said he was almost beaten to death has obviously never seen anything that bad. Its a disgrace to our nation that they are charging these kids with attempted murder. Justin Barker is going to have a hard time in life after this. It’s going to be known that he was the kid that got beat up and tried to have 6 blacks kids in jail for the rest of there life. Hows that for racism? It just blows my mind that people can even think like that. Its sad that people are still stuck in time of inequality. What will it take? Thats all I want to know.
You have lost your mind.
I think that Bell was knocked out with the punch and probably,because he had been running his mouth and making racial slurs, some kids kicked him. It was not a beat down
In the suburban North East (back in the 70’s and early 80’s), racism was an archaic concept.
In 1983, we moved to GA and found the opposite…racism was alive and well in the South.
Racism (in the 24 years that I have lived here) has not disappeared…only changed.
Augusta, GA is extremely rascist…but the division is not caused by the whites (although that is the perception), or even by the African-Americans.
Racism in this town is perpetuated by the ignorant.
It is not perpetuated by students sitting under a tree. It is perpetuated by students that live with inflexible families.
It is not perpetuated by student arguments/conflicts. It is perpetuated by a few adults that they think that they are somehow smarter and more capable of dealing with conflict just because they have something more than an HSD.
Racism is created by people that think they can teach, but only teach the next generation to be less.
These young men should not be going to prison…juvenile and community service until age 18. No permanent record.
However, the ignorant adults that screamed how these boys were being scapegoated (which seemed not to be their own family members–just more media hounds). Send them to a real college…lets see if they can still deal with the real world with only their smarts and no laws to back them.
Intelligent people of ANY race need no excuses and do not provide their children with one.
[I approved this comment and then remembered my promise to delete exactly this kind of thing. Regarding "bleeding out from his ears" - clearly he has a laceration and that's where the blood came from. No serious head injury was reported - and he had a CT scan. THAT is the reality. Barker was NOT seriously injured. I'm extremely familiar with emergency room costs in Louisiana, from experience. And if you don't believe med professionals overtest due to CYA ALL THE TIME you are not very well informed. With the malpractice insurance situation being what it is, everybody practices defensive medicine these days if they want to stay in business. - Laura]
James, are you talking to me or Maggie?
hey what the h*** is wrong wit the cops, i got my a** whooped worse than that at the bus stop
[Edited to keep profanity off the front page. - Laura]
A mob beating to unsconsciosness is pretty serious. It is simply a matter of luck that someone is killed and someone else is not. Consider Rodney King; he looked about like the gentleman above. But the video was pretty horrific and his supine state of near-unconciousness rendered it all the more horrific.
I’m not saying this is a good decision by the prosecutor. I wasn’t there, and I’m not familiar with all the evidence. But there does come a point when a beating becomes attempted murder, and I would think when people black out and a whole group is kicking someone as hard as possible might be that point.
Thankfully in America we have individualized justice. The jury should not and is not required to consider “America’s long history of racism” and all the rest. They must only ask if the elements of the crime are proven by the evidence. Here we have a battery conviction. That sounds about right. If their boots were a little stiffer and if the victim a little more fragile, he might be dead and they might all be facing life terms. These are not good actions; kids do stupid things, but they don’t learn discipline unless they’re punished. Whatever happened to “sticks and stones” and all that. It’s high time we quit allowing words, slurs, and America’s supposed history of oppression justify every form of black misbehavior. Blacks murder one another every day and it doesn’t make the national news, and neither do horrific black on white crimes such as the Newsom-Christian murders in Knoxville. And why? They don’t fit the script.
The Jena Six is the Duke Lacrosse incident du jour. I’d figure out what kind of dirtbags you’re defending–and how long their records are and how bad their actions were–before I risk making a fool out of myself.
Actually, Rodney King had documented skull fractures and internal injuries. If “a whole group” of athletes had been “kicking [Barker] as hard as possible” he’d have had serious injuries, too. But that’s not what happened. His injuries were minor.
I believe they should tried (with attorneys who actually defend them, unlike Bell’s attorney who put on no case at all) and if convicted, they should be punished, too. Appropriately. In the juvenile justice system. Not with adult felony convictions that may carry as much jail time as many murderers serve.
Why was he knocked unconcious if his injuries were so minor? We all know hospitals hardly keep anyone overnight anymore, so the fact that his eye is swollen shut in the picture above doesn’t prove much. Does the fact they were trying to break his bones, knock him unconscious, and generally do what normally can kill people matter at all to you? It seems to me it’s just a matter of luck whether he lived or died, the blacks’ actions showed a lack of regard for human life and bodily integrity, and thus it’s at least within the realm of reason to prosecute them for attempted murder.
Roach, do you know that they were trying to break his bones? Can you prove they were trying to kill him, as opposed to just beat him up? Even if you never, as a teenager, felt the desire to beat the crap out of someone, surely at least one of your friends did. Were you, or your friend, a homicidal maniac, or were you a teenager struggling to contain your emotions and deal with things maturely? I don’t excuse the beating. It was unequivocally wrong. But I just can’t find a cogent argument for saying it was attempted murder. Certainly they had a lack of regard for bodily integrity, but I believe you’re really stretching to assert they had a lack of regard human life.
No, I don’t know. You don’t know. No one knows. We don’t have “evil heart detectors.” So we look at people’s intentions from the objective facts and induce them appropriately. If I shoot random shots into a tent while I’m camping, not knowing if anyone is in there, I can be found guilty of murder or attempted murder because my actions show a disregard for human life. This is sometimes called “malignant heart” murder in the common law. So, when we have actions that could show murder or a mere HS fight, we prosecute them both if the facts support it and let the jury sort it out. They’re the finders of fact in our criminal law system. You simply can’t say because this guy’s bones weren’t broken that it wasn’t a big deal. Stomping on someone en masse in a group when he is unconcious looks like attempted murder to me, not least because it can easily kill someone. Now this crew of offenders might be really dumb and obtuse, but more likely they just don’t care about anyone but themselves and their exagerrated egos. God forbid you “diss them” or they’ll come and pounce.
Look, this is a free country. I should be able to say n****r all day long and fly confederate flags and all the rest and black people need to learn to control themselves in the face of those provocations. They don’t, of course, and we all make excuses, but whites have a fraction–literally 1/10th–the rate of criminal offending as whites and surely it has much to do with the fact that we and the broader culture don’t make heroes out of thin skinned white people that go and beat the crap out of anyone that causes them offense by “dissing.” Whatever happens in this case, I can assure you that a plurality of the Jena Six will be back in jail, likely for a violent offense. They’re not model citizens on the road to success. Since they’re a danger to the public, better they spend their twenties in prison where they can’t hurt anyone, white or black. Or do you disagree? I’d gladly bet my life savings and all my future earnings that two of the six will be back in jail within the next 15 years. Care to take me up on it?
You need to quit harping on the attempted murder charge that no longer exist. Do you think second degree battery is to stiff of a punishment? With the laws wrote the way they are how could he be charged with less?
James, were the attempted murder charges dropped for everyone? I think (haven’t kept up with the latest today because I’m working) that they still stand for at least two of the six kids. Furthermore, they should not be charged as adults – which the original attempted murder charge permitted to happen, and I don’t think that was an accident. I believe it was a deliberate choice to get them into the adult system when being charged appropriately from the beginning would have put them in the juvenile system. Which is what Bell’s attorney’s have been arguing.
> We don’t have “evil heart detectors.”
No, but I do have logic. People *know* that a gun is a good tool to kill someone, but they don’t reasonably expect that their fists or even their sneakers will do that. I do contend that “stomping” simply didn’t occur, unless they deliberately withheld force. No internal injuries, renal damage, nothing that indicated serious force to his abdomen or back. Barker’s facial injuries do NOT support “stomping” especially given that these kids are athletes. Had they *intended* to seriously injure him, they could have.
>I’d gladly bet my life savings and all my future earnings that two of the six will be back in jail within the next 15 years.
Nearly inevitable at this point. However, the reports are that even Bell was an honor roll student and several had college scholarships lined up. As far as I’ve heard, Bell is the only one with a criminal history. And statistics don’t justify the over-prosecution that made that future nearly inevitable. A guy I do a lot of business with came out of the projects here in N’awlins. His IT business dovetails nicely with my web dev business, and I’ve gotten to know him pretty well; he’s had a tough past and worked hard to get where he is now. You’d have written me off, doubtless. I got my first formal computer training via the welfare system. People DO beat the odds, and they should be given every opportunity to do so. Since Bell has a criminal past, I can see the case for treating him more harshly, but as for the rest – major overkill.
I have been watching this case since first hearing about it in mid July. From the beginning, all I wanted was fairness for the boys. This is America. If someone commits a crime, they should be charged, tried, judged by a jury of their peers, and sentenced if found guilty. HOWEVER, it should be fair…across the board, not according to who a person knows or is related to, not according to how much money they have or don’t have, or according to the color of their skin. Fighting is never the answer. However after the noose incident, the noose hangers were only slightly slapped on the hand, the fights and racial tensions escalated…and all lead up to the attack. Six on one is definitely not a “fair” fight, it was an attack. The boys should have been arrested and charged…but not for attempted murder. The charges just didn’t fit the crime. Now, with yesterday’s hearing, it seems like a much more level playing field, and I do believe the boys will be treated fairly. No one ever said (or if they did they were wrong) that these boys’ records were squeaky clean. No one knows whether or not they will commit crimes in the future and face imprisonment. As for Roach saying he/she should be able to say the “n” word all day long…I just ask you to go to http://www.abolishthenword.com and don’t skip the introduction. After viewing that, do you still feel the same way?
To be clear, I don’t like the word n****r and don’t use it. I think it’s rude, low class, and un-American. But I think a big part of our national values is the right to speak freely and not be subject to violence. I think there is a widely held perception, particularly in minority communities, that it’s automatic and always justified to use violence when dissed, whether with the word n****r or otherwise. This is an uncivilized philosophy. It’s why blacks murder at 10X the rate of whites among other reasons. (Look up recent report the Color of Crime to read these NCVS/DOJ statistics.)
Let’s have a reality check here. We need to have confidence to impose standards. We can’t just ask Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to do it for us. They, and other black leaders, are out to lunch. With a few exceptions–Bill Cosby most notably–black leaders make excuses when blacks behave badly, especially when their victims are white. White people need to do this for themselves, because this is necessary for self-protection. We, Americans, with a white majority, must impose these standards on the criminals, the poor, the underclass, minorities, rednecks, and anyone else that does not behave the way we want them to and the way they should. This is the difference of conservatives and liberals.
As for the noose incident, it was clearly an obscene and a provocative act of vandalism. But so is much else in the public schools: taunting notes, rude gestures, gossip, etc. It’s legal free speech most often. It’s subject to appropriate school discipline, and three days seems more than enough, other than the fact that the putative victims are so thin-skinned and violence-prone that when they see the first whiff of racism, they think that gives them an excuse to go on a rampage. This difference in mentality is exhibited by the different responses to the Rodney King and OJ verdicts. Rodney King was not killed, but in the officers’ first trial the guys who beat him were acquitted. This appeared to many an injustice and vast swaths of the city’s black and minority community then went on a killing rioting rampage for over a week. OJ was acquitted in what also appeared to be an injustice to many. Whites, notably, did not riot, did not kill, and did not otherwise decide that an affront to their tribe justified mass violence, nor did they do so when Huey Newton was acquitted or when the Channon Christian Chris Newsome murders took place in Knoxville.
It’s disgusting to me that this terrible and all-too-typical black misbehavior is becoming a tale where the bad guys, the black criminals involved here, are being made out to be the victims.
Until the majority of Americans are willing to discipline and control uncouth, rude, and criminal behavior by minorities, we will be destroyed by these same minorities, and the minorities themselves will be reduced to the uncivilized state they enjoy in areas where they are in control: Africa, Haiti, Detroit, New Orleans, etc.
[I agree with you about the nooses; I have never been a believer in the concept of hate crimes. This violence ramped up over a course of several months, as fairness (even the ability to speak to at a school board meeting) was denied to the black community. That's similar to the officers who beat King getting off - a verdict, by the way, I don't necessarily disagree with - it was reported at the time that he was on PCP and violent, and that what happened before the video that was shown on the news supported the officers' case. I disagree that three days for the nooses were adequate; I think you're not taking into account that it's not just an insult, it's a threat. Especially in David Duke country, which LaSalle Parish is; in fact in a highly Republican parish they voted in a Democrat (Blanco) before they'd permit Bobby Jindal to be governor. - Laura]
Stomped on in the face?! Yep. Sure looks like it. And this picture was probably taken after he was considerably cleaned up. I don’t agree with the initial charges, but as the facts come out in this case, the supporters of these thugs seem more and more pathetic to me.
[Whatever, ER... As for the blood in/around his ear, try getting lacerations on your face and earlobe while laying on the ground. Where do you think that that blood will trickle, hmm? "Bleeding from his ear" which is a very common catchphrase for those who call the Jena 6 "thugs" unlike the
undoubtedly pure, altar boysracist punks who started all this, implies blood from inside the ear. It implies a serious cranial injury. There has been NO evidence of this thus far, and if there had been any, Reed Walters would have had experts on the stand to testify it and buttress his case. Feel free to not return to this blog, since we're pathetic; if you're going to start making insults right from the off it wouldn't be long until you were banned. I guess nothing would satisfy you except a photo of Barker all bloodied up. Doubtless that's what Walters showed the jury. The problem with that is it doesn't accurately convey the TRUTH; the fact that the injuries were not severe. - Laura]To Laura–
Why edit a post of mine rather than simply replying?
You are focusing on the result rather than the cause of the injuries.
Is it disputed that he was knocked unconscious? That is probably what adds the weight to the charges — kicking someone that is unable to even defend themselves. The fact that they didn’t kill him or damage him permanently is LUCKY for the thugs (sorry, that’s what I call anyone that beats up on someone else with or without verbal provocation). Would your mind be changed if he did have permanent damage to the eye? Again, the thugs are lucky he didn’t.
Of COURSE the ER bills are going to be that high and it has nothing to do with racism. It has to do with the costs of the tests, and given the nature of injuries they all seem reasonable. Are you really suggesting they shouldn’t have been done?
As for the bleeding from the ears, you are correct, the blood could be from lacerations, but did the thugs who caused those know that at the time? The photo does not prove he WASN’T also bleeding from the ears as we both agree on what that term means.
In the general coverage I’ve seen one incident that involved students — the noose hanging. The victim of these thugs’ crime was being friends with one or more of them. The other incidents occurred at other locations — private home, convenience store. I’ve read where some of the six were involved in that gun incident and the gun was found (not turned into police) in the possession of one of them. I don’t have a link to confirm that at the moment.
You seem to be clinging to whatever facts you can even in light of all the new information that has emerged in this case to try to save face.
These thugs don’t deserve anyone’s support. If people REALLY want to do something about racism in Jena, they should call on the DA to take a stricter stance on ALL crime and for the school to take a MUCH stricter stance on all violence and vandalism on campus.
Seriously, this would be a different story if the victims of the six on one beating put up the noose. I’d file that under the “stupidity is not a crime but rarely goes unpunished” category. But this kid merely noted that one of the six, who was obviously very prickly and thin skinned, had gotten beat up. This is a cause for beating him unconcious. I think this story, like the Duke LaCrosse hoax, has no legs when you look at the real facts.
Roach
The majority of your statements are assinine. No one is saying the six people involved in the fight are innocent. But the charges do not fit the crime. Victims? Yes they are. They are victims of judicial inconsistency. If Justin was black, the school would have given him a freaking bandaid and told him to take his ass home. Lets be serious. The judicial system is unpredictable. And that comment about OJ….please!!! I’m glad he was acquitted. That gives some people faith in the judicial process. And you shouldn’t have the f**k**g right to say n****r. You aren’t black obviously. So you wouldn’t understand the pain that is associated with that word. Of course blacks use it all of the time, and I’m not excusing that. But you would never fathom the heart ache behind n***er. So save your grandiloquent vocabulary, cause it’s an oxymoron that an idiot is using big words.
Laura
They lowered the charges on Jones and Shaw, Tuesday. I am sure you were aware of that by now. The other 3 havent came up yet but I am sure they will also be reduced. Jones and Shaw are now looking at the same second degree battery and conspiricy to commit second degree battery that Bell was. Also surely you know that Bell is only facing second degree battery now. There is no doubt the others will be reduced to the same offense when their trial date comes up. There was a article in the Alexandria Town Talk a few weeks back arguing for Bell to be placed back in the juvenile system. Another lawyer not involved in the case explained what would happen if if was put back into the juvenile system. He said from what I can remember was that there still would be no change of venue. He would still face judge Mauffrey. It would be closed to the public, there would be no jury. All of Bells past would be brought up with witnesses in each case. In his trial the jury wasnt presented with Bells past criminal history as he was only being tried for the assault on Barker. This is why Bells attourney didnt call any witnesses in Bell defense because he knew what would be brought up in cross examination. I seriously doubt it would be in Bell best interest to go before the same judge who had him on probation and had so often saw him in his court room for other violent crimes. I believe that someone with their own agenda talked the blacks that were summond for jury out of going to court. I think they wanted more media and hype about racism to further their cause. I think they couldnt care less about how it may have effected Bell or the other six.
You know as I have posted on here before how I think this will all play out. I see people charged with various crimes every week. I also see what they normally end up getting and from what I am seeing in this case it is going them same as similar cases . The judge is very consistant with his rulings whether they are drug related (which is a big problem in this area) or DWIs, and assault. For the record I care very little for the judge or the DA, but that has nothing to do with them doing their job.
ER, I’m in the habit of replying in line because on many of these threads there are 100 or more replies. It’s usually easier to track that way, since I haven’t been able to find a good threaded reply plugin. No, I’m not at all interested in saving face; if an apology is due I will gladly deliver one. I have been in touch with several people from Jena who said they’d get the court documents for me to establish whether or not one is owed – so far no luck. But I have apologized publicly several times on this blog in the last three years, and I don’t mind doing it – to the point that my apology was an open trackback post because what I was retracting was an open trackback post; I made a point to give it the same exposure and not hide it in the comments. So no, that’s really not an issue here.
If you look around this blog you will find that I am a white, Christian conservative, and this is not normally the kind of cause I espouse. I genuinely believe that while the Jena 6 should be punished, adult court and felony charges are wrong. I believe that Reed Walters has engaged in selective prosecution. It’s pretty well established – even by white Jena residents in interviews and on this blog – that racism is a problem in Jena. The question is to what degree.
The Louisiana Supremes vacated the sentence of a case similar to this because the injuries did not justify the higher sentence. It all hinges on the severity of Barker’s injuries; he was reportedly up and walking around before the ambulance ever arrived, and as you can see from the picture – and from the lack of medical testimony in the case – his injuries were not severe. I didn’t say the tests shouldn’t have been done – only that they weren’t extraordinary – everybody practices defensive medicine these days and the amount of the medical bill is not necessarily indicative of the amount of the injuries. Whether he was unconscious or not, I don’t know. But I want you to consider this:
Somebody hits Barker, and Barker goes down. He is quickly surrounded by a group, with other students pressing in from all directions. Someone’s on the ground hitting him in the face, and others are kicking at him. (And “stomped” would have resulted in cracked or broken ribs, renal injuries and abdominal injuries, so I simply don’t believe it happened – it’s not supported by the evidence we know about.) I do know that there is no way this event took more than a few moments (by both logic, Barker’s injuries, and the testimony I’ve read), and I think it’s extremely possible that they thought he was down, but not unconscious. The only one who can reasonably have known if he was unconscious was the one who was next to him punching him – and in the heat of the moment, he may not have realized. Perhaps you have never been in a fight, but I have. This is a reasonable scenario, consistent with what has been reported so far.
The victim is good friends with the racist punks and by all accounts is one as well. This doesn’t justify the beating, but neither does it make him innocent. The idea that there was no connection between the mounting racial tensions in the town and this beating is ludicrous, I hope you’re not asserting that. As for new information that has emerged – other than Bell’s criminal past – what info is this? One guy in Jena says he has the scans of the court documents – and offered me a photo he had taken with his cell phone of Barker’s photo from those documents. Once I published this photo, he emailed me saying never mind, he wouldn’t send the scans. I can’t take two days off to make a trip out there and get them myself, and the ladies at the courthouse say there’s no way to get a copy otherwise.
As I said in another post – like Fox Mulder, I want to believe. So far I don’t see any reason to. Bell’s attorney (yes I know he was black) didn’t bother to put on a case. I’m not bothered by the fact that the jury was white – Jena’s 85% white; I was saying even before jury selection that it would be an all white jury – but the total lack of defense, and the extreme charges lead me to conclude that there is a real problem here.
Roach: he’s good friends with the noose hangers, and reportedly called several black students “nigger” and taunted Bailey for having his ass whipped shortly before the beating. Evidently you’ve been out of high school a lot longer than I have (or don’t know many teenagers) if you can’t see how that would work. (And I’ve been out of school for 20 years.)
James, if that’s what happens, it will be fair and I won’t complain. Bell should be tried as a juvenile, and so should the others.
Okay the only thing I want to say is conspiracy is normally used when two or more people pre-meditate an action. How is a school house fight pre-meditated? Especially if this case is not to be linked to the hanging of the nooses.
Also, if stomping someone should be considered as attempted murder given minor injuries, why isn’t that the case in all states? I live in a large city and I have seen numerous fights at school, one on one and many on one (getting jumped), kids have NEVER been charged with attempted murder. Actually they normally get suspended from school, maybe kicked out, and sent to jail, normally leaving with probabtion IF convicted.
This question is for Roach, Laura asked if you’d ever been in a physical fight? I’m curious to know. Have you? In the boxing ring, 2 people fight no? Would that be considered that they were trying to kill each other? Or mroe like sparing? Occassionally someone gets knocked out, eyes are closed, lips busted, from fighting regularly. The men that participate in that I’m sure are waaaaay stronger than these boys, you still think that they are trying to murder the other person? I understand that consent is given, but this is a sport is it not? Isn’t kickboxing a sport? Would it be a sport if any type if hitting was considered attempt on someone’s life?
1 more thing, this is America and we have freedom of speech right? Go up to a black cop and call him a nigger? Or get pulled over on a bogus call and tell that cop exactly what you think, think you’d be going to jail? Yea, that is called insubordiation. Or disorderly conduct. Police jobs are to serve and protect, not to lock people up for speaking their minds. I don’t think that speech is so free.
My sincere apologies. After reading a bit more on this blog I realized this was something you do regularly. My bad for stepping on toes in a new place.
May I ask … If the charge is racism because you do not feel that the charges are/were appropriate to the crime … is that your feeling for EACH of the six? Is there any evidence that Bell’s attorney was the reason for not calling any witnesses? Or, perhaps could it have been that no witnesses would go under oath to say that he was not involved? One of the prosecution witnesses against Bell stated that when they got there they thought the victim was dead because his eyes were rolled back in his head. Do you question that teacher’s account based on the photo of the victim after he had been cleaned up in the ER?
I agree the initial charges were harsh. That has been rectified in large part. Juvenile court? Again, let’s not lump the six of them on that count. If any are juveniles with no juvie records, then that is the court for them. Bell has already violated probation for one violent offense committing two more BEFORE this latest. Another slap on the wrist until he’s 18 and can go off to college with his record expunged/sealed. Get real.
For the record, I’ve been in fights, I’ve gotten beaten up, I’ve kicked a few asses too, I’ve been threatened and intimidated by rowdy black kids in HS, I take martial arts, I’m an attorney, and I’ve seen people prosecuted for attempted murder in physical beating cases like this before, both white and black. More important, I’ve seen people prosecuted for murder when beatings have been very physical and led to someone dying. I also know from the NCVS and other data that blacks commit far more multiple-on-one offenses than whites, including gang rape. And I also know that while whites brush off comments like “cracker” and a**hole and all the rest on a daily basis, blacks seem to think it’s a license to start throwing fists and shooting “gats” and generally following their own primitive rules.
Blacks make up 12% of the population and make up half the murderers. Far from mostly victimizing each other, they just victimize a lot of people. Lots of blacks and lots of whites. Controlling black misbehavior is in everyone’s interests. To quote the New Century Foundation report, The Color of Crime, “Of the approximately 1,700,000 interracial violent crimes involving blacks and whites reported every year, blacks commit 90 percent and whites commit only ten percent. Blacks are therefore more than 50 times more likely than whites to commit interracial crimes of violence. The differences are even greater for multiple-offender interracial crimes, with blacks 100 to 250 times more likely to be involved in gang attacks on whites than the reverse. Some people may argue that blacks attack whites because they expect them to be carrying cash or valuables. However, fewer than 20 percent of black attacks on whites are robberies; rape and assault do not usually have economic motives.
There is more black-on-white violent crime than black-on-black violent crime. When blacks commit
violence they attack whites 50 to 55 percent of the time. When whites commit violence they attack
blacks only two to three percent of the time.”
So, yeah, I’ve lived a little and I realize that blacks will flip out when you call them n***er even though whites and Asisans and other more civilized groups generally will not resort to violence in similar circumstances. I don’t think such provocations are a good way to live, but I think words and criminal behavior should be held in sharp contrast. We still have free speech in this country, and that includes the right to use a word rap artists use 50X in one song. As for this case, I’d just as soon lock up criminally minded young people before they go out and rape some poor white girl than worry too much about the punishment being “too harsh.” We’re conservatives; I thought we’re supposed to be tough-on-crime.
Roach, what is your opinion on the Klan and on David Duke?
Not a fan.
But I don’t see why acknowledging black white differences in a factually-based way devoid of myths, exaggerations, and said with the appropriate admixture of human charity even implies that. The worst thing about our culture today is that there are many truths that everyone knows but no one can say publicly. So instead of having reasonable, measured, and appropriate criticism of minority groups, instead we have none, and the criticism of the bad behavior in question is left to crackpots like Duke and the KKK.
Incidentally, I don’t think racism is a big problem in this country, and it has little to do with the self-inflicted harm blacks inflict on themselves. More important, the constant concern for racism–Duke Lacrosse hoax being the best example along with Twana Brawley incident in the late ’80s–distracts us from the numerous ways blacks hurt each other and also hurt white people. When there’s not enough facts to drum up a hoax or make a big national deal out of something like the brutal ex-con-on-ex-con killing in Jasper, then old cases like the Scottsboro boys or some of the Sixties era Civil Rights killings are dredged up. All of this distracts from one of the biggest problems in this country: The majority has no confidence, racism has nothing to do with the fact minorities behave worse than whites, minorities are not criticized appropriately when they do so, and their cultural leaders provide little leadership to move away from this. We’ve gone from the days when black elders told their kids “be a credit to your race” to “fight the power.” It’s been a disaster.
What is not being said is that 6 blacks beating one white is nothing but pure racism and deserves to be prosecuted as a hate crime. If the colors were reversed the 6 would be sitting in a federal court. It is time that all people start to look at what is happening and stop throwing their support behind a brunch of racists. It is time that the black community starts to police itself and stop this themselves. The white community has done this, though still not complete, and it is better for it. The black community has continued to go backwards in the areas of racism, crime, leadership, reliance on welfare and unwed births. Stop condoning violence and promoting education, marriage, and the ability to support and raise your children.
Roach: You seem like you are a fairly intelligent man whose done plenty of research on how minorities behave in an uncivil and animal-like manner but what about your research on white people? You talk about how blacks commit so much more crime than whites but you haven’t even mentioned that since the beginning of time white people (in general, not all) have acted in the most demonic ways imaginable. White people choose to ignore the fact they as a people they have murdered millions upon millions of people in order to achieve the positions they have today. It’s not by chance that whites run the Western world. It’s by force. Since you like to research, find out how many Native Americans were murdered in order to have this great country we have today. Find out how many Africans died along the way to come to America to work for FREE. Find out how many Jews were murdered during the Holocaust. Find out how many Chinese were forced to build the railroads. Find out how many Japanese women and children were murdered with the dropping of the Atomic bomb. Find out how many blacks were oppressed and killed in South Africa during apartheid. Find out how many blacks were murdered, lynched, and hanged during the Jim Crow period in the South. And while you’re at it find out how many Iraqis have been killed after our intelligence made a “mistake.” If you look up those numbers and study the history of violence among white people as well as blacks you may just realize whites may be just as bad and evil as they come. And I know that all white people aren’t bad just like all black people aren’t good, but I’m sure you would agree…the numbers don’t lie.
<strong>Laura:</strong>
The reason I decided not to email you the scans is because I believe you’ve lost your impartiality in alot of this.
I have Justin Barker’s medical report at my house. In the ER Discharge Instructions, under “Head Injuries” nearly every box is checked off, including “blood or clear fluid coming from ears / nose”. I’m not contending he was “close to death” or anything like that. I’m just saying what was put on the medical report. For you to tell me you’ll delete my entire posting just for mentioning what is WRITTEN in his medical report is a little unfair to me. I was convinced at first that your argument was removed of bias and that is why I was trusting you to present this information. But it’s hard for me to feel like you are biased when you won’t allow me to present information that is clearly in the medical report.
[I just re-read this - jeez you're grasping at straws. DUH, he had a bloody nose. What a shocka! Seriously, what are you trying to hide? My impartiality is not the point - you saw the stuff I was writing in the beginning - solidly pro-Jena 6. I told you I was willing to take a look at whatever evidence you give me to prove I'm wrong. Now all of a sudden you're acting like I was EVER impartial, which is patently not true. What game are you playing? - Laura]
what i think about this whole trial is that its uncalled for and for me to be a young black person myself i think that from the begining they were goin to try and make examples out of these students i think that the pickin of the jury was totoally unfair and that they need to move this trial to a state were it is going to be jugde right by law if ur already i a town and its un fair any way these poor young people have no chance at all in justice and just like any WHITE person they deserve fair trial as well, now for that boy that got beaten up his has not seen beaten to death until he goes to Richmond VA or Norfolk VA or NY and even DC thats nothin compare to the beatings that i have seen with my own eyes he just needed to be bandaged up and sent home and told to him nopw thats what u get becuase it doesnt make any since hes a punk if he went thier for that small stuff but to put those young blacks to trial as adults now is wrong also if sumthin happens where im from and u was not an adult when it happen it depends on what went on u dont get trialed as an adult and i dont think that they should, their life is being messed up already from this and the people are just lookin at it from one side when everyone need to look at it from all ends, blacks in general went through enough being slaves and haveing to fight for what we have now! that town should be ashamed that they are still actin like they are stil living back then instead of now the world is too short to be living like that what if they were in a sitution that no one was around but a black person, all they can do is sit thier and DIE from being stuck in that mind state before judging those kids and people dont really know whats going on look at both sides before takin a side and im pretty sure that if someone was wrong doing they know that deep down inside and its eating the hell out of them becuase of that GOD works in mistyrious ways and people need to realize that i hope the best for those Jena 6 and that GOD is standing all over them to protect them and that sumthin happens in this trial that releses them and let them go on with their lives.
Roy Ce, there is some truth to everything you say. I won’t go point by point. But your mistake is thinking that all of these actions were standing alone, simple morality tales of the big bad western world oppressing the virtuous third world of minorities. For starters, intramural violence seems to me more antisocial and problematic than violence in the goal of conquest, self-defense, etc. No sane community would tolerate a fifth column out of some sense of guilt over misdeeds in the distant past.
It’s very easy to create a morality play, but it’s particularly hard for an honest historian to do so. After all, history often shows that the villains are not so bad, nor the heroes so good, as they are in works of fiction. This is what is so bad about the patronizing cult of guilt that runs through so much contemporary scholarship; by unmasking notions of power and oppression, the sins of the oppressed are often ignored, and, in so doing, the motives of the oppressors become less explicable. What may be an overreaction to a legitimate provocation, instead appears as mindless malevolence.
Take the atomic bombing of Japan for example. Last time I checked, the Japanese were racist oppressors of other Asians and also brutal violaters of the law of war in dealing with our own troops, i.e., killing of prisoners, etc. They fought to the death on Okinawa and the bomb ended the war saving countless American and Japanese lives.
We must ask ourselves: should our country survive? Do its faults deprive it of a right to survive in recognizable form? Have minorities behaved any better than whites, who are the object of hatred in all modern Marxist-Multiculturalist views of the world? Have we learned to behave better as others have not? Have we made moral progress in ways that give us a right not just to judge ourselves but to have faith and pride in our civilization?
>But it’s hard for me to feel like you are biased when you won’t allow me to present information that is clearly in the medical report.
I have no way of knowing if you’re just making it up, From Jena. Why should I trust you or take your word for it? Your IP today reflects Paducah, KY. You want to stay anonymous, fine, but you also have no credibility. Send me the report and let me assess it for myself. If the papers are real, what do you have to lose? What’s the down side of sending me the papers? There is none. The courthouse said they’re publicly available, you’re not in any legal jeopardy, and I’ve given you my home address to mail them to – you could do so without putting your own return address. I’ll hit your paypal account for the amount of the postage. If you have scans, what’s it going to cost you to email them? Nothing – and I already have your email address. So it looks to me like you’re the one hiding the truth. What are your motives here, if not to get the truth out?
Added: I renew my offer to all Jena defenders, including you, From Jena.
Roach: It seems to me that what you just said, in a confusing way (in your other posts you wrote in more common language but either way is fine to me) is that violence committed today by blacks is worse than the violence that whites have committed throughout history.
“For starters, intramural violence seems to me more antisocial and problematic than violence in the goal of conquest, self-defense, etc.”
Why? Violence and murder is violence and murder. A pistol or a missile, it’s all the same.
“It’s very easy to create a morality play, but it’s particularly hard for an honest historian to do so.”
Not really. Truth is truth. What whites have done throughout history is immoral, plain and simple.
“Take the atomic bombing of Japan for example. Last time I checked, the Japanese were racist oppressors of other Asians and also brutal violaters of the law of war in dealing with our own troops, i.e., killing of prisoners, etc. They fought to the death on Okinawa and the bomb ended the war saving countless American and Japanese lives.”
I disagree. The bomb killed some soldiers but mostly INNOCENT people, including women, children, and babies by the thousands. That’s just sick.
I guess from the perspective of a person benefiting from the actions of the oppressors it would be hard for them to see (or easy to ignore) just how evil their group of people can be. I just can’t understand how they could see so clearly how bad and unruly the oppressed are.
It would have been better, I suppose, if we invaded Japan and the result was many more innocent people killed?
You did miss my point. Blacks have committed crimes against blacks, in Africa, where they sold each other into slaver in a slave economy that pre-existed European slavery. It took White Christian Colonials to outlaw this practice, which still exists in some form in rural Africa. Other countries’ oppressions are simply not recorded. There were caucasoid people in the Americas before the Indians. They were somehow wiped out, probably, like the Indians themselves, from a combination of disease, displacement, and direct killing. It’s unknown, though, and largely undiscussed because like so much else in the Third World it’s unrecorded. We have the burden of history because we’re backward-looking and have a historical tradition. The Moguls in India, the Japanese and their Ainu, Hutus and Tutsis, Chinese and Uighars, and all the other blood in history shed before we showed up is largely unknown.
The west is notably for the development of its morality including things like due process, the abolition of slavery, the destruction of misogynistic polygamy, etc. We are not perfect, and as we’ve departed our Christian foundations we have become downright evil (as in Nazism and Communism), but yeah I think our track record and civilization is better all around. But perhaps you’d like to defend African clitorectomy and the widespread use of rape in South Africa, post-apartheid, as a good thing.
Incidentally, let’s look at lynching real quick. 3,500 African Americans were lynched from 1882-1962. Care to guess how many black on black murders there were last year?
Your sense of proportion is jacked up, borne of a deep-seated alienation and narcissistic disregard for the crimes of non-whites.
Laura This question has been in the back of my mind for a while, so I will go ahead and ask. I am sure it is correct for me to assume that you dont know anyone who works at LaSalle General or in the ER for that matter. In one of your way earlier post who had mentioned you had talked to a nurse there> Correct me on that if I am wrong. As everyone says there was no medical personal as a witness in the trial, this just makes me wonder what doctor or nurse would give a stranger an accout of Barkers injurys knowing they could loose their license for doing so. I am not tring to be rude or implying you were lieing, just curious. I do know alot of the people who work there in the ER and most parts of the hospital.[A medical professional testifying in a trial is in no danger of losing his or her license to practice. Medical testimony is certainly admitted into court proceedings all the time. No, I didn't interview a nurse - I read the account of the head nurse's testimony in some news article. - Laura]
Roach: There were TOO MANY black on black murders last year. I understand the atrocities that have taken place in Africa as well as in America of blacks murdering blacks. You so eloquently point that out. In my post I said that black people do need to get it together. But my question to you was why do whites get a free pass to murder anyone in their path to greatness or treat minorities with such disregard. If you are as intelligent as you write, how can you ignore what white people have done and continue to do but put on full blast the “misbehavior of blacks?” How can you not see the blatant racism in this case?
I have no problem condemning whites, I simply think they’re not really the problem in America today. And when whites do misbehave, you won’t find me getting on prosecutor’s cases for being “too harsh.” There were no white candlelight vigils for Scott Peterson or the Jasper defendants, last time I checked.
I think you people who are making these comments do know half of what you are talking about when it comes to the black community. The Justice system is not for blacks. This is wrong and we as blacks, need to come together on this. This is still slavery if we sit back and let this DA in Jena do what he is doing. Whites commit crimes as well as black. Blacks are just not given a fair trial. Look at the way they are doing Micheal Vick over a damn dog. He was already guilty before he was tried. What happen to the White lady that killed her preacher husband. She only got 7 months in jail and then got out and still had her same job. What is wrong with this picture. Just like with the serial killers in La. Derrick T. Lee was sentenced to death for murders that I still don’t think he commited, but you have Sean Gillis, who admitted to killing more than 8 people and they still said he didn’t kill them. They are also still dragging his case out in court. He even pled guilty and they say he didn’t. He had to go back to court the next day to plead guilty again. You tell me what is wrong with this picture. I am totally for punishment if it fits the crime. I has not always fit the crime for black people. The whites are all of the higher offices and they are putting us away. It’s not that we don’t have the education to have these jobs, but it is a white mans world. I can’t wait until Jesus returns, because of lot of white people will burn.
Hello all! First i’m very disappointed because it was just Tuesday of this week that I am hearing about any of this. I live in GA and I don’t know if it’s just not important enough to broadcast here on our news channel(s). However, Thank God for Micheal Baisden, Al Sharpton and many other black radio talk shows. I am amazed and shocked by this story and the outlook of my fellow Americans. There have been some very interesting and shocking posts on this blog. We are all Americans, or live in America and have free speech. At the same time we are all children of God and we should have some level of respect for all of God’s creations, we are all created equal. I’ll take it further to challenge everyone to imagine the members on both sides of this argument being one of your family members…of course you will be partial to your family member. So now lets look at your race……..RACISM STILL EXISTS!!!!!!! We do stick with our race first (there are some fair people in the world, but……..). And i even argue that not just whites are racist, black people are too, asians, jews, we all have some level of racist views in our hearts. I think the noose situation was ridiculous and quite frankly we all have our boiling points that make us react. First of all this was a “white’s only tree” come on, then to hang a noose so the whites only could hang so “N’s”?? Come on people. I am not condoning the black students for reacting in the way that they did, but please this young white man was not near death. Looking at his picture he is one of the good ole boys I went to school with 15 years ago. Cool as all get out but get them with their friends and they get cocky, they run off at the mouth…..like I tell my son, sometimes you need to just keep your mouth shut before you get your teeth knocked out!!!!!! Come on, don’t instigate things, don’t push a person until they react. And everyone reading and responding to this blog no good and well that you have a boiling point where it’s like “okay enough!!!!!”
I pray that these young men get proper legal assistance. I pray that justice is served. I pray that ALL THE FACTS come on, no matter what they were. At some point the parent(s) of the white young man need to hold him accountable for his actions.
Black people in general just don’t go walking around for someone to beat down. Black people will give their last to anyone. This country is built off the white mans theivery and the black man’s sweat. Take the time to look at who has the least yet gives the most, that would be the black population. Black people are more forgiving and you best believe a black person will help a white in need versus the reciprocal. Justice must be down and as a black population we need to rally together in peace once again for our race. We must let go of violence and turn our eyes toward the hills from where I help comes. This is a sad case and I pray that none of loose focus on what is going on. The world/time is winding up, the rapture is near. We’ve got to get right. we have to treat each other with respect and love for mankind. We’ve got to stop the violence within our own families, towns, cities, states, this country and the world.
The Jena 6 are at fault for making a bad judgment and SO WHAT if they’ve had a bad start. Who amongst us has not done something stupid. The difference is if you got caught. Everyone has stolen something…YES YOU HAVE. (That pen in your purse, did the job buy that or did you? If the answer is the job, guess what you just stole from your job) So what they got into a fight, so what they got smart with a teacher…….that does not mean write them off. Heck write the white boy off, he scares me, he threatens peoples lives, heck that should be a terrositic threat, a FELONY!!!!!! He should not be allowed to go to college. Come on people, where is the justice, where is the right to a speedy trial….where is the balance of the scale.
I’m praying for us all, and those young men (white and blacK) their parents, the school administration that someone speak up, be honest and seek fairness, fair judgments for everyone. How bout join them (White and black) at the wrist and make them work together on a project for the community.
“Ebony and ivory work together in perfect harmony, side by side on my piana, keyboard, oh Lord why don’t we…….” Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson!!!!!!!!
Yesterday I had a chance to talk to 4 older black men that I worked several years ago.They have all worked for the same company in jena most of their lives. I simply asked them what was their take on the whole situation. They all replied basically the same thing. They are glad they are off of the street, they werent nothing but hoodlums and thugs. They stole from there neighbors, they assaulted their neighbors and others in the community. One said they thought they were a gang just like the bloods and the cripps. I asked them why didnt didnt speak up for the other blacks in their community and they said straight up that they were afraid ,if they did something may be done to their familys or themselves. Thats pretty bad when 4 grown men are afraid of the youth in their community. I know alot of you wont belive that but I really dont care because it is so.
James Black:
I’ve talked to one of my black friends and he agrees. I’ve also heard through secondary sources (friends that have close friends who are black) who said something very similar to what you heard. “That whole case is bull****”, “Those guys deserve to go to jail, they ain’t nothing but thugs.” I’ve heard both of those, the FIRST comment actually coming from Mychal Bell’s own cousin. I haven’t said it yet because I know the story is so skewed that most people reading this are willing to lash out at you for even mentioning it. It’s sad how reality is so bitterly rejected by people when the media misinforms them like this.
[REALITY is not being bitterly rejected. Unsubstantiated statements like this are. Reality is what can be substantiated or at least what people have taken responsibility for, unlike all these comments. I'm serious - this is taking up enough of my time that I'm seriously considering shutting down comments on this blog. None of this is moving the story forward - it doesn't prove anything, as you have continually insisted the court documents would - these comments are just rehashing the same old BS and a total waste of everyone's time. I'm going to be deciding in the next week how much more time I'm willing to commit to monitoring this crap and taking the behind the scenes abuse I'm taking from BOTH sides when it's all so pointlessly repetitive. I mean, really - why are we bothering? - Laura]
Laura,
I think you have a problem with racism. I think you need help. I am serious, you are a racist.
[Okay, now that I've stopped laughing, I can type again. Please, detail the reasons why I am a racist. I'd really like to know. - Laura]
This young man had a concussion. Have you used that word? What if I (a white woman) posted a pic of a black young man with a swollen shut eye, bloody ear and proceeded to minimize his injuries. Would that make me look racist? Would I be accused of same?
You have consistently minimized this victims injuries. And his pain, and that of his family. He was attacked, unprovoked. That, it seems, is factual. He had nothing to do with the prior incidents (per MB own defense lawyer) nor did he hurl racist names at these men ( a claim that the black boys just now remember, there was no mention of racial slurs on the night of their arrest)
And yes, a shoe can be a weapon, stomping a head into concrete is more than a school yard fight.
Laura, don’t patronize me, and laughing about this only makes you look more foolish.
[I don’t know if I’ve used the word concussion or not. Probably - I’ve got a whole archive of posts on the Jena 6 - feel free to look them over. It’s NOT AT ALL a factual statement to say that he was attacked, unprovoked. On the contrary. It’s reported by many sources that he had just engaged - along with his racist punk noose hanging buddies - in mocking Robert Bailey for having his *** whipped, and it’s also been reported that he called Bailey a ******. Does that excuse the beating? Of course not. But neither was it unprovoked. Based on Barker’s injuries, it’s extremely unlikely his head was “stomped.” Where are the facial fractures, broken nose, broken teeth? If these athletes “stomped” him then they certainly weren’t trying very hard. But I’ll make the same offer to you that I have to other “stomp” advocates. Let’s meet, and I, a middle aged non-athletic woman, will stomp on your head for several minutes. After you’ve completed medical treatment, (which will take several months, by the way) we can sit down and I’ll buy you a cup of coffee and we’ll discuss what SIX ATHLETES could have done in the same time frame.
As to minimizing the injuries, yes indeed I am doing exactly that. They were not serious. I have been the victim of a serious beating, and consequently I have what Maureen Dowd might call “absolute moral authority” on the issue. You don’t spend a couple of hours in the ER, have a CT scan which found nothing serious enough to even keep him overnight, attend a social function, and by his own admission, take pain pills for only a couple of weeks after the beating, and get to call that serious injuries. It’s laughable. It doesn’t pass the logic test. Not even close. I’ve minimized his injuries because THEY WERE MINIMAL. As the photo, the portion of the discharge papers I’ve seen, the reports of the medical testimony, all prove conclusively.
By the way, as you call me a racist for not taking Barker’s side on this - did you know that I’m white? Have been for all of my 39 years. I’m also conservative - I’ve got three years worth of posts to back that up. So before you categorize me, you might want to do a bit more research. And yes, I am laughing at you calling me a racist. It’s funny. - Laura]
The charges are wrong for certain. Should they be charged with something such as attempted murder…no…but they are lucky he didn’t hit his head and die while they attacked him. They should be charged with a ‘hate crime’ their attack was racially motivated, they were six black students attacking a white student for no reason except for his skin colour. If this were six white students attacking a black student (or a gay or jewish student etc) the black community (or whichever minority rights group would be applicable) would insist on nothingless. A hate crime is exactly this. These kids are not innocent they commited a violent hate crime. Racism is a two-sided coin.
Before people leap on me for stating this the students who ‘hung the nooses’ should also be charged with a hate crime.
Society in general needs to learn that any act which is an act of discrimination is not acceptable and carries with it extreme consequences.
TO ROACH:
You’re the one who needs to have a reality check here. You have no clue what it means to be Black in this society. Your views are narrow, uneducated, closed minded, stereotypical and of course typical of people like yourself. Let’s take things back, since you like to discuss Black peoples elders. Well, our elders were the same ones who slaved for over 400 years to build this country into what it is today.
Don’t forget a person’s past shapes ones future, and the past that your forefathers inflicted on the Black race has helped shape our current state. People such as you are still directly and indirectly profiting from this today! Have you forgotten slavery the very foundation that this very country was built on is racism? The very evil thread that still exits today.
It is clearly evident in the genocide of Native Americans, in the enslavement of Africans, and the drafting of the constitution that reserved and guaranteed true freedom almost exclusively to European immigrants. Your logic and supporting notions for your views are weak. Let’s not forget that most things in life are systematic such as oppression.
Have you forgotten the crack era in the 80’s, and heroin in the 90’s that plagued inner city Black America? Remember that was the time we Black people were trying to “Fight the Power”, funny man, but nothing is funny here. We did not own the boats and planes to get drugs into urban Black America.
Yes, the Black people have certain issues to work out collectively, all races do. However, you must be on another planet, and smoking something yet developed to think that things are fair, even, and just in this society towards our race. The justice system, which unfortunately you represent, is one of the very systems of oppression towards Black people. For Black people, a tenacious struggle for racial justice in this country has always been a part of America’s racist history.
Let’s be real, these youth (the Jena 6) were provoked, and yes they have no right to inflict any harm upon another human, period. But let’s now take a look at the root. Have you been in the gut of the Black race, to understand our plight to even justify your weak views? Well I have, from the villages of Africa; to the slums of the U.S. the fact is the White man has had his hand in the oppression that has plagued my race globally, one way or another. Either through divide and conquer strategies our through systematic deliberate oppression, check your history books, read the facts they are there and undeniable.
I have been all over the world, I have two degrees, four majors, Ivy League educated, I’m black, I’ve been arrested (I’m also willing to take you on your life savings bet), and under 30, so it seems to me that you needs a lesson in racial education.
There is a term called racial privilege you need to look up. After you look this up you will understand even further the very beliefs of your racist forefathers that America’s foundation are built on. Abraham Lincoln in the September 18, 1858 debate:
“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And in as much as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”
Rebuttals to your views:
“As for the noose incident, it was clearly an obscene and a provocative act of vandalism. ” – This incident was racist period, nothing you can do or say to twist the facts of the matter.
“(Look up recent report the Color of Crime to read these NCVS/DOJ statistics.)- Have you heard of the term poverty before? Do you understand the effects of poverty in a capitalistic society? Don’t forget about the number of white corporate, political, and governmental criminals.
“Until the majority of Americans are willing to discipline and control uncouth, rude, and criminal behavior by minorities, we will be destroyed by these same minorities, and the minorities themselves will be reduced to the uncivilized state they enjoy in areas where they are in control: Africa” – Did you forget that we were Kings in Africa (still are), and the fathers of ALL civilization. Not until the Europeans began colonizing, dismantling, and dividing the continent of Africa is when our problems began to systematically take us to the very state we are today. Please do not speak if you do not have full understanding of issues at hand.
“I have no problem condemning whites, I simply think they’re not really the problem in America today.” – The true problem is racism, and most White people till this day still believe in racists beliefs (this evil is in your bones, you can not deny it).
Racism is the belief that a particular race is superior or inferior to another, that a person’s social and moral traits are predetermined by his or her inborn biological characteristics. Racial separatism is the belief, most of the time based on racism, that different races should remain segregated and apart from one another.
“Africa, where they sold each other into slaver in a slave economy that pre-existed European slavery.” – First, have you ever been to Africa and do you understand their culture. I have, several times. Slaves actually were a part of the family, they were not mistreated, and cruelty was not inflicted upon slaves (no beatings, hanging with noses, and being called n****), they were servants.
“Asians and also brutal violaters of the law of war in dealing with our own troops, i.e., killing of prisoners, etc. They fought to the death on Okinawa and the bomb ended the war saving countless American and Japanese lives.” – I’ve served as an ambassador to Japan for Peace, Justice, and Reconciliation, and your points are wrong. Dead wrong, where are you getting your information?
“The west is notably for the development of its morality including things like due process, the abolition of slavery,” – they had no choice but to abolish slavery, they needed Black slaves to fight with the North against the eleven Southern slave states during the civil war. Get your facts straight.
Roach there are two books I recommend that you read: 1) White Like Me: Reflections on Race from a Privileged Son (Paperback) by Tim Wise, and 2) Dismantling Racism by Joseph Barndt, both of whom are white authors.
One last thing, I love all people, irrespective of race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin. God bless America and the rest of the world, and let’s continue to fight for justice and freedom for all people. One.
Dude, you’re so caught up in the mumbo gumbo you sound very ignorant. All blacks do not react to “ignorant racist whites” with violence, hence the Martin Luther Kings of the worlds. You say whites aren’t what’s wrong with America….Hmmm..let’s think about this. Some ignorant Black, Hispanic, etc. may steal, rob a liquor store from time to time..But whites are the biggest thieves (stole this country from the Indians (raped and killed their women and men), stole africans from their country (raped and killed their children, women and men), BUSH stole the presidency by having his brother mess up the votes in Florida..Sounds like you guys are the biggest thieves and when you steal you steal people and countries. 85% of pedaphiles are white males between the ages of 20-45 years of age, not to mention hanging people who couldn’t speak the language because of the color of their skin (and Roach their were no gangs back in slavery) the only gangs were you guys beating, eating and raping any slave woman you could get your hands on. You wonder why we’re sosensitive to your racism and we react the way we do….. Use common sense..if you have it…
First – You steal us from our land
Then- You kill us and throw us over board because your ship couldn’t sustain all the cargo
Then- You sell us like cattle and enslave us to build this nation and nurture your families for almost 300 years…that’s a hell of a long time. 300 yeeeeeeeeeeeears!!!
Then- You rape our woman, kill babies, beat us all when you felt like it (we are human for god sake)
Then- when we are freed, see what happened when we tried to live normal lives in a country that weren’t our own…
You segerated us and then came to burn crosses on our lawns. after all that and you want to know why we’re so quick to defend ourselves physically..Hmmmmmmm..you do the math genious…
Racist people like you who group people need to look at your won race as the problem as everytime I look up you guys are killing your own babies (saying a black person did it), ALL serial killers are WHITE..You eat people (Jeffrey Dahmer) and it was black people he ate..Hmmm….and you wonder why we’re sensitive..Do you remember that case in Texas where the balck guy was stripped naked, tied to the back of a white mans truck and drug to his death all beacuse they didn’t like black people?….
AND YOU WONDER WHY WE ARE QUICK TO DEFEND OURSELVES………
This case is a case of consequences. There are consequences that stem from racial hatred. There are consequences that arise after collective violence. MOST IMPORTANTLY, there are consequences when adults don’t take their authoritative roles seriously. They waited until AFTER violence took place to take any significant action when preventative action is almost always more effective (just look at VA Tech and Columbine).
If these kids were aware of the consistent consequences of their actions maybe it wouldn’t have snowballed into this huge form of injustice on both sides. It takes good leaders, good teachers, good role models to help children learn these concepts. Where were the adults? No ADULTS took action until it was too late, and even then, it was as if their judgement had failed them as well.
The school could’ve taken larger steps to promote multiculturalism, but instead it seems that the adults were either too complacent or too content with the separatist culture of the school. It was as if an african american child even sitting under a “white tree” was just a one day joke-a-thon.
If adults aren’t going to behave rationally and administer justice, why should anyone expect children to behave the same way? THis could’ve all be avoided if the school system did what they were supposed to in addressing the racism and the separation at its onset.
Where did you get your statistics on white on black and black on white crime? Hey…didn’y you say you were any attorney..Boy I would never hire you, as you can’t even retrieve the correct data. Someone who hires you as their attorney will be truly sorry. Check this site
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
White offenders represent 45.8% of homicides (that’s nearly half of all homicides are committed by whites in the US)
From 1976 to 2005 —
86% of white victims were killed by whites
94% of black victims were killed by blacks
Not much of a difference if you ask me (5%).
ROACH doesn’t know what the he** he’s talking about. Do your homework chump!!!!
EVERYONE – be careful of an attorney like Roach…dumb!!!!
Your math is flawed on its face. For starters, blacks make up 12% of the population and are committing 55% or so of homicides by your own math. Then, they’re comitting almost 100% of the crimes agianst blacks but 14% or so against whites based on your own numbers. But if they’re only 12% of the population and committing half the homicides, then their rate of homicidal violence is much much higher. They’re disproportionately violent people to the tune of 10X the white rate. Look up the “Color of Crime” when you get a chance on google.com.
What should I apologize for, incidentally? What did I do wrong? Speak the truth and support it with facts? This is the world we live in; God help someone who dares to “hurt black people’s feelings” he might end up in the hospital and black people who are bystanders won’t feel any sense that this wrong behavior.
Have anyone looked into why the white kids who hung the nooses have not been charge with a hate crime? Would that fall under the hate crime law? That would make it a federal crime right?
Roach,
Ur logic is full of Bull****, you may not have noticed but your comments seems to me a little racist I think….Your saying that blacks make up most of murders and charges if you think about it and I’m sure you should know because you stated that {your an attorney} the reason being blacks are being charged for murder, rape, gang related activities,etc. is because BLACKS are given more severe sentences then WHITES…{being that your an attorney im sure you already knew that}and yes I am black and if I was a bystander to someone getting hurt for no apparent reason {which you are trying to make it out to be} no matter what their skin color is, I would feel that their behavior was wrong. How can you say such a thing? Look at it from our point of view….White guy committed a crime just the same as a Black guy and look who gets slapped with a Life sentence{even though the trial has been updated}. If all colors of race received the same punishment for the same crimes….{sweetie, the white people would equal out to the blacks that are in jail}. Look it up, you should already know and if you don’t WAKE UP PLEASE!
Eric,
You said “They should be charged with a ‘hate crime’ their attack was racially motivated, they were six black students attacking a white student for no reason except for his skin colour”
NOT
Their actions were motivated by only a particular guy who taunted them and hung the nooses in a tree to symbalize HATE and pump fear into black students who sat under their precious tree. Sound almost like when they tried hurt and jail Ms Rosa Parks for sitting in the white mans precious front seat on the bus. They didn’t randomly select a white person, they went after the person who did the social and racial misdeed. So it was deliberate and specific and not a hate crime. Use your common sense. The hate crime was the nooses, the vegilantisim was the brawl (although I don’t support violence at all)..This was kind of like a passion crime to me..
[Actually, Barker didn't hang the nooses. He was good friends with those who did, though, and was reportedly taunting Bailey just before he was beaten. - Laura]
KUDOS to Laura because I don’t think no one is paying attention to your argument which seems to point out unfair and unjust which is the situation at hand!
First of all, I would like to thank Laura for making it possible for us to express our opinion and views. This blog has been about the Jena 6,but it is also about racism. I think that its good to be able to directly address the subject we have been skirting around for years. Some web sites allow such utter nonsense and trash talking. I think any intelligent person will turn away from those after awhile. Trmack, I so agree with your statement. Had this been handled from the beginning, I dont think those boys would be facing prison and justin would not have been hurt. I blame the adults,who turned their heads and allowed this nightmare to get bigger and bigger.
Laura, I appreciate your comments and realize you partially disagree with me; your commitment to open debate is laudable, particularly as I admit I am saying some controversial things. This change in tone, though, that calls my use of stats a hate crime and any deviation from P.C. orthodoxy an example of “hate” is a sign of the times.
Incidentally, the argument blacks are punished worse than whites because of their race and are not disproportionately criminal does not stand up to scrutiny as the NCVS (a crime survey) data accord with the BJS (jail statistics) data. The truth is, blacks are more violent. There are many reasons–including illegitimacy and an unfortunate culture that praises violence–but these facts are undeniable.
Finally, it’s notable that the use of taunting and vulgar speech–nooses–for which someone should probably be expelled from school is confused in the minds of your readers as a potential crime, as if we don’t have a First Amendment that protects even obnoxious speech such as this. The drumbeat of political correctness and equality is confusing many Americans about our traditions of LIBERTY, which allows “hate speech” so long as it is not connected with criminal actions.
The picture of Justin’s face does not do it justice. I saw his face personally and the picture does not at all show the severity of what he looked like. Besides if you can’t look at the picture and think “oh my God! He got the crap beat out of him.” something is wrong with peoples vision.
[Sorry - still not impressed. I've personally experienced a far worse beating. I know he was more swollen the next day than he was at the time of the picture. I'm sympathetic, I know he felt like total crap for at least a week, and bad for another week after that. But 2 hours in the ER and 2 weeks of feeling like crap does not attempted murder make. I personally could have done a LOT more damage to a person lying prone and not resisting in 3 minutes or less, and I'm a non-athletic middle aged woman. - Laura]
LauraGuess you didnt allow one of my last post, I dont see it anywhere. Whats wrong? You dont want people to know what these people are doing with their hard earned donations. I will find the site and let you see for yourself tomorrow. I guess I could just drive by and take a pic of he new jag sitting by the trailer. I tryly believe some who donated would be appalled dont you.[I've never blocked any of your posts, as far as I know. Please, send the pic, if it's the same trailer I saw on the news, I'll post it. - Laura]
[Added - I just checked the spam queue, nothing in there from you, James. - Laura]
hey, I agree with a lot of what Roach has been saying, but he seems to be a litte harsh on the blacks. I don’t think that the color matters as far as crime goes. I do think that a lot of blacks keep a grudge on things that happened in the past that didn’t happen to them but maybe there ancestors ancestors. Those days are over. Why keep bringing up those horrible things. And whites weren’t the only ones in the world who had slaves. And not all slaves were black. You don’t hear anything out of the indians, they just want casinos. As far as me and my family, we are not racist, but we do get tired of being blamed of it, just because we are white. It makes us feel like we’re the ones who’s being racially harassed. Oh, by the way, I’m from JENA!!! Who Cares. When I went to Jena High School, there were never any fights like that. There was a lot of intimidation from a few black boys. Those intimidations were toward me (sexually) and my boyfriend (my husband now) they blamed him for writing hate notes that he never wrote, it was hard enough to get him to write me a love letter, let along a stupid hate note, LOL! But I’m sure we weren’t the only ones they intimidated. But that’s all it was, intimidation.
This is why this is being taken so far, is because there has never, in my time in school, been such a beating with black and whites. Not in this town. I may not get out much. But I know it didn’t happen while I was in highschool. We always heard blacks just calling each other the “N” word. Which is definately not right, it’s not a “if we can’t say it, they can’t say it” thing. I think that word is just as bad as saying “F***” I don’t agree with it. I have 3 very young children 5 months, 2 years, and 4 years old that have already heard a young black boy say the word “ni**er” in front of them. Now what are they gonna do if my little boys say that word? They are gonna blame me for it of course! But if my kids ever say that word they will get their little butts whipped. They’ve never said it “thank god” but if they keep hearing it no matter who they hear from, they will wind up saying it.
The Jena Six intentions were to beat the boy up, I don’t believe that they were trying to kill him, I hope not. But the fact of the matter is, that Justin didn’t deserve a beating, why not an insult, if he even insulted anyone himself. He didn’t even take part in hanging the nooses. So what if he’s friends with the guys who did, that doesn’t make him like them. Do any of you have any gay friends? Well, just because you have gay friends, does that make you gay? No, it doesn’t. Just because he had racial friends didn’t make him racist either. The boys who hung the nooses by the way were punished. I know 2 of them are home schooled and are not allowed to walk with their class for graduation. To me, walking with my class was a very big deal. But it may not be to them, but they should’ve been made apologize to the congregation, not only did it affect the blacks but also everyone else and my kids future in school in this town. These white boys were ignorant in what they done. They are most likely racists and they will live with the burden of the war they caused on this town. My children and their own children in the future will pay for what the white boys done. Also the Jena Six is just as racist and has caused the same thing on their children. Our children’s future in this town is already at stake with the war all of these boys have caused. Notice: BOYS
I don’t ever hear of Black Girls and White Girls causing this kind of trouble. Men and their EGO’S!!! (you men don’t get offended now, just a figure of speech)
i worked with a couple of guys from jena who told me that it was okay to talk while on the job ,but if i ever pasted through jena and had a break down not to call on them for help cause blacks wasn,t welcome in jena
I find this case funny. Here I am, a black man, and after I received an email made up to support the Jena 6, I found myself doing what many of my brethren should have done, finding the facts out. Fact: Some of these boys have been found guilty of violent crimes in the past. The fact that the fight started as a one on one altercation, then the other 5 jumped him, it makes the case to ‘free’ these 6 young men, ridiculous. I actually thought by reading that these young men didn’t strike him at all and this was all a set-up. It wasn’t. I have family members from Louisiana and the best way to stay out of trouble with the legal system is to not get in trouble. I’m becoming a believer that if this was reversed it wouldn’t be a story. I understand that we as blacks cannot continue to act in violent matters and then look to the media to exonerate us. Attempted Murder? Possible. I’d have to see the medical report. Battery charges? File em. While I disagree with Roach on some of his assumptions about black people, and the impact of slavery, I don’t toe the line that many of you are proclaiming. I’ve done some things that weren’t legal in my time. NONE OF THEM WERE VIOLENT. That is the problem in this system. Violent youths become violent adults. Plenty of people may steal, but I really believe that violent crime should be judged differently. By the way, when did 17 mean you could be an idiot? i have a 9 year old boy so if these guys get off with this should I tell him it’s ok to join in on mob mentality? Just because some spew racist crap at us, does not give us the right to attack them. Only when they make it a physical altercation do you engage them. You engage them on equal footing. If it’s one man? Then meet him man to man. If they come in a group? Then meet them as a group. What these boys did had no honor.
Roach saying blacks are more violent than other races is equal and akin to saying whites are more evil, hateful, prideful and haughty (similar to their father Satan) than any other race. Both are backed up by statistics.
But the fact is that people act the way they do because of situation and circumstances. Whites are prideful and evil, but their culture and society makes them that way. Blacks are more violent because their culture and society makes them that way.
Roach’s words are based in his racial pride, haughtiness and feelings of superiority. Underneath the skin people are people, and scientifically, there is no such thing as the current racial divisions (google that). The divisions are cultural and an aftereffect from the evil, Satanical white rulership of this world.
God and Jesus will not judge by color as worldly people do. Satan has used pride-based racial supremacists to perpetuate his evil for millennium. It continues but won’t continue forever.
No one’s perfect. We all have original sin. We all commit wrong. But the question is one of culture and standards. Whites don’t rally around bad whites. We punish them. Once upon a time, we did not, particularly in the days of Jim Crow and the KKK when “Southern Justice” routinely let off violent KKK thugs on the thinking they were part of a broader movement to maintain white supremacy. This was wrong and shameful, in my view. It’s also almost completely disappeared. No whites will rally for the killers of James Byrd or for Ted Bundy or the average redneck bar brawler. But blacks are different. They and their leadership make a cause celebre out of their worst people who dishonor their entire group. Black juries in Baltimore routinely release violent black criminals to re-offend and terrorize their own community.
Blacks will be treated as a group so long as they treat their criminals as part of their group whom they should rally around. It may indeed be too harsh a sentence in Jena, but it’s the kind of error that none of us should worry too much about. We’re talking about violent predatory criminals. They belong behind bars for a long time. There are plenty of whites doing very long sentences and you don’t see too many national petition drives for them. We don’t have an Al Sharpton or a Jesse Jackson to muckrake every time some criminally minded white decides to act like a criminal.
I don’t think all blacks are criminals, or are bad, or anything else. These statistics are just that: statistics about a group. They don’t tell us whether any one white or black person is good or bad. But they do tell us about a trend, and that trend is that blacks are more violent in America today. There’s probably many causes, not least the breakdown in the centrality of the nuclear family in Black America. This problem is getting worse in White America too, and no doubt will bring with it a train of similar problems. But part of the problem too is this culture of not ostracizing criminals, and instead treating them as Robin Hood characters avenging injustice informally against a broader, unjust white-ruled society. They are in fact no such thing. They’re brutal and ruthless people that victimize more blacks than whites homicidally, with rape, and otherwise. They belong in jail and they belong to be ostracized by the black community or that community will suffer and whites will rightly perceive that entire community as one deserving to be treated collectively as anti-social because it provides moral support and justification to common criminals.
The blacks this and the blacks that….. Dear “Roach” (and additional relevant posters),
A generally acceptable phrase has been adopted by those familiar with this case and even those not so familiar to refer to the individuals held responsible for this incident. Here’s a hint: the phrase I’m referring to contains a number, not an epithet.
As an African-American female who has a clean criminal record, no history of violence, a law degree, and three siblings serving their country through law enforcement, I take pointed exception to the cavalier manner with which you hold the whole of one culture responsible for the conduct of six adolescents. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with a recent West Virginia case in which six white people were arrested for the week-long torture, sexual assault, and stabbing of a 20-year-old black woman. By the way, the Federal Bureau of Investigation declined to classify the case as a hate crime despite the fact that the abductors called the victim a ni**er during the course of repeated assaults.
And maybe the fact that the majority of Dhamer’s victims were black does little to awaken you to the violent tendencies of your own race. Moreover try as I might, I was just unable to locate multiple incidents of either school shooting or child molestation cases perpetrated by individuals of any races other than caucasion. Notwithstanding the overwhelming above-cited acts of violence committed by white people, it would be both irresponsible and downright ignorant of me to condemn the entire caucasion culture for the conduct of their less well-intentioned cohorts.
However, seeing as though virtually ALL school shootings have been committed by white people, I would haul ass out of class if I saw ‘Little Debbie’ turning the corner with an assault rifle slung across her shoulder. Similarly, since virtually ALL noose-hangings of African-Americans have been committed by the “good ‘ole boys down South,” I too would feel the heat rise within me upon discovering three nooses hanging from the “white tree”, on the “white side” of campus, down in the richly slave-enhanced State of Louisiana. And I would not look all too kindly on the braggart choosing to exercise his Constitutional right to call me a ni**er under those nooses.
I neither take issue with your stance on the Jena 6 case nor your opinion of black, white, green, or purple criminals. But if you would be so kind as to limit your references to the specific “blacks” I believe your comments to address, it would be greatly appreciated.
And ya’ll be sure to visit us someday up in Maryland ya hear!
[I cannot BELIEVE that you would compare criminal violence here at home to our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. I deleted the text of your comment, and I absolutely will not allow similar ones out of moderation. It's utter garbage. While there have been isolated instances of violent crime - and a good deal of made up crap by the likes of Scott Thomas Beauchamp - our troops are NOT sociopaths and criminals. Death in war is NOT AT ALL the same as civilian crime. THERE IS NO COMPARISON. I'm shocked and offended that you would say such a thing. - Laura]
[Added - on second thought, you're banned. That's how mad I am about that crap you wrote. The rest of the comment would have gone through just fine, but those kind of slams against the troops are not tolerated here. - Laura]
I need an explanation to why my last comment has not been updated.
[If I knew what that comment was I might give you one, but my first guess is that it violated comment policy. If you want to be sure that your comments get out of moderation, then check the comment policy and comply with it. - Laura]
The plural of anecdote is not data. White crimes are unusual and they are reported to an extreme degree. The stats don’t lie here . . . and neither do the victimization surveys. This crime is important because it is typical, just as a white kid shooting up his school is quite interesting because it’s atypical. But if you don’t believe me just notice how many times movie theaters, bowling allies, restaurants, and dance clubs are shut down in the ghetto because someone needs to bust out a gun and shoot someone for dissing.
These stories are so easy to find (and never make national news) that it’s pitiful. You might think this is white racism, but I think it’s just as much white patronizing behavior in the face of patronizing black leaders that are more concerned with “airing their dirty laundry” than they are with stopping crime.
PS Look up the local sex offenders in your neighborhood online some day. Legions of black and brown faces abound. Whites too, no doubt, but it’s certainly not a white majority crime.
Roach, it is seems to me that you are a racist, because you have made multiple racist comments and generalizations about the black community. You are obviously NOT Black so I don’t understand how you can say that you should be allowed to say the n-word and hang confederate flags. Saying that Black should act like “more civilized groups” is a stereotype. Yes there are uncivil Blacks the same way that there are uncivil whites, but for you to imply that we are uncivil and follow “primitive rules” is purely racist. I would like to see one of you “Factual statistics” that state that the majority of blacks follow “primitive rules.” There is absolutely no truth to that, that is simply a racist statement. How would you define a racist, because, whether you wish to admit it or not people who make racist statements and believe racist things are racist. It seems to me that you are a bit…no a lot biased. (You say that you were beaten up by rowdy black kids at your high school (not that I can blame them) but maybe thats why you don’t like black people, i don’t know, I’m not a psychiatrist, I’m just saying maybe you should get some help from one.) “blacks hurt each other and other white people” Yes this is true but if you were going to say that then you should also have said that “Whites hurt each other and other black people” people in general hurt each other regardless of color, this is another reason why it is easy for someone to come to the conclusion that you are a racist. You are constantly focusing on all of the horrible things that blacks do and how whites are the victims but the color of their skin really is not the issue people in general are violent that is how our culture is today and you cannot blame that on black people. “THEY’RE disproportionately violent PEOPLE to the tune of 10x the white rate” That would be a prime example of a stereotype saying that “THEY’RE VIOLENT PEOPLE” implies that you are referring to all blacks which is a very common stereotype, if that is so then why aren’t whites violent people, don’t they also commit violent crimes. “God help someone who dares to hurt black people’s feelings, he might end up in the hospital” again implying that all blacks are violent which is something that a racist person would say. How can you say that blacks are “violent predatory criminals” but then admit to kicking a few asses, wouldn’t that make you a violent criminal also? I don’t understand what makes you any better than the Jena 6 boys if you said that you’ve kicked a few asses, maybe not to the extent that they had but the fact still remains that you beat someone up so why is your violence justified? if you feel that they should be in jail for up to 100 years then why shouldn’t you? Another statement that you made about hip hop sounded very ignorant, ” rap artists use it 50x in 1 song” As an African American teenager it is clear to me that you are purely going on hear say and assumptions. Can you please name for me the song that you heard that used the n-word 50x’s? I don’t understand how you could even try to use that as an excuse. If you are that weak minded that hearing a word in a song can influence you that much then you really do need help. There are many violent messages in rock music everything in hip hop is not bad, I have NEVER heard a song that used the n-word 50x’s (nor have I ever heard a song that says every single woman in the world is a hoe or a bitch,) this is just another one of your biased comments with NO PROOF, I WOULD TRULY APPRECIATE IT IF YOU COULD TELL ME NAME OF THE SONG YOU HEARD THAT USED THE N-WORD 50X’S!! And finally you say that ” that community will suffer and whites will RIGHTLY perceive that ENTIRE COMMUNITY as one deserving to be treated COLLECTIVELY AS ANTI-SOCIAL because it provides moral support and justification to common criminals” how can you possibly justify saying that whites will rightly perceive us a anti-social, what gives whites the right to deem blacks as anti-social that statement sounds like something a Klan member would say or someone who believes in white supremacy. After reading all of you racial comments how can you say that you are not a racist?
(I think that a lot of people that are really racist don’t want to admit it because it is such a negative thing to be but honestly you have to kind of think that the statements that you have made sound racist. I am not referring to the statements that you have made with evidence to back them up I ‘m talking about th statements that you have made without any proof to back them up, and if for some strange reason you still think that you are not a racist then please tell me what you think a racist is?)
My comments did not violate comment policy in anyway.
[Then the spam filter may have caught it, but I deleted all the spam comments last night so I can't get it back. Feel free to repost it. - Laura]
ROACH you make some valid and not so valid points. Everyone is going to have there individualized beliefs and understanding. We can go tit for tat and pull facts all day. The truth of the matter is that there is still an undeniable problem in this country regarding race, racism, and (in) justice. We need more solutions rather then trying to justify problems.
TRMACK makes a very valid point regarding consequences. As adults we need to begin to teach future generations the importance of respect, so that they will not endure the problems of our generation. We as black people definitely still have the cards stacked up against us. Knowing this we need to educate ourselves more, work cohesively to advance our economic conditions, forgive, become more accountable for the decisions we make, and raise our children.
I don’t understand why statistics are so difficult for some of you. A certain portion of any group is going to be violent. So when we’re judging a group’s rate of violence, we’re always judging a cohort of individuals within that group. So if you have two groups and one of them contains a much larger and much more violent cohort of violent individuals, we can say that that group is more violent than some other group. This is a proper generalization and an appropriate, fact-based statistical inference.
Here’s an analogy that should not be too hard to grasp: is it fair to say men are more violent than women. It’s true, some women are more violent than some men, and it’s also true that not all men are violent, but it seems a fair generalization to say men on the whole are more violent (or more likely to be violent) than women. In fact, it’s about 10:1 for the male rate of violence as compared to the female. Incidentally, this is almost the same as the 9.8:1 ratio of black violence to white violence.
So label these FACTS racist all you want, but reality is reality, and this reality also accords with most peoples’ intuition on the matter. You can’t run away from reality forever by crying racism, stereotypes, etc. Those charges were once labeled at UNREPRESENTATIVE and UNFAIR stereotypes, not generalizations in general. We’re told that racism is a huge impediment to blacks, was bad in the past, and is still a major problem. But consider this: 4,743 people were lynched in the United States between 1882 and 1968. How many blacks were murdered by other blacks? In 2005, about 7400.
It’s easy to pile on the alleged white racism that pervades our society, but it’s much harder to look at the facts in the mirror: black people are causing a lot of problems for themselves and others in the form of criminal violence and a lack of ostracism against the worst members of the black community.
Consider Jena and Jasper. Who came out to supporthe Jasper defendants; a few broke KKK losers. White racists are on the fringe of white society; they have no power and are completely ostracized. Black solidarity with criminals, however, ranging from these Jena Six losers to OJ is widespread and leads to almost zero opprobrium. It’s a joke and it makes the entire community and its leadership lose the respect they had, once upon a time, when young black men and women were exhorted to “be a credit to your race.” Now they’re exhorted to “thug ’til they die” and their parents (or more likely single mom parent) have little to say about it.
Roach i like the fact that you use facts to support your data. Based on those specific facts it appears african-americans commit more muders but the only conclusion i can conclude is you are more likely to get murdered by a african-american not that they are more violent! An likewise based on statistics you are more likely to be a caucasian pedophile. Now maybe you can go back to your statistics and find the rate of poverty associated with the high african-american murder rates and maybe that will shed some light on the murder rate and will take in account more than just skin color. An just maybe you can also see that not just african-americans living in poverty have higher crime rates but every race crime rates skyrockets up when you put in other factors like poverty! My opinion on the case is that the student who placed the nooses in the tree should have been expelled( maybe even ending this before it started). Now that the student was beaten I do believe they should face charges but charges that are appropiate!
what I love the most about this subject is how everybody is talking about this whole racism thing…i looked up the myspace page of Theo Shaw and certainly love the comments that his friends make about “screw the WHITE BITCHES”…. now excuse me… who is the racist here? They brought it on themselves not because of their color but because of that they did! You dont go against one person as a group no matter if you are white black green or freaking orange!!!!
Quote from the DA prior to the Jena 6 incident:
Last fall in Jena, the day after two Black high school students sat beneath the “white tree” on their campus, nooses were hung from the tree. When the superintendent dismissed the nooses as a “prank,” more Black students sat under the tree in protest. The District Attorney then came to the school accompanied by the town’s police and demanded that the students end their protest, telling them, “I can be your best friend or your worst enemy… I can take away your lives with a stroke of my pen.”
The boys that hung the nooses got suspended.Ok, justice was served.So why shouldn’t the six boys that caused a young man to loose is hearing in one ear permantly and partially lose his sight be punished.Justin barker was not one of the boys who hung the nooses, so everyone can stop trying to use that as an excuse.He can not be held accountable for the actions of his friends.Six boys have taken away one boys hearing in one ear which he can never get back and most of the vision in one eye.Justin barker has suffered more than anyone.Six on one is never a fair fight regardless of race,sex, or age.Mychal Bell is also being portrayed as a good kid.People need to know that he was already on probation, for what….you guessed it assault.I relate his case to OJ Simpsons.I belive if he is let go it will not be too much longer and he will do something else to be right back in jail. Its also funny to me how people talk about the DA in Jena.Well he has done his job fo over ten years and suddenly now everyone has a problem with him.He was first elected by a majority vote of both blacks an whites alike.The DA has even went with no one opposing him because he was well liked so much.I am not racist I just believe in right and wrong.These kids should be punished somehow for what they have done.I beleive they should be made to pay medical bills and serve atleast another year in a juenile facilty or prison.everyone coming to Jena to rally should stay at home and let the law who has done their job for years continue to do it.
[Permanent hearing loss and loss of sight? Proof, please. This has not been reported ANYWHERE. There's not a shred of evidence at this time - including the photos, his own testimony, the ER nurse's testimony, and what I have seen of his ER discharge papers to back up what you're saying. Also, Bell's priors do not include assault. He had two counts of battery. Finally, I say again, the American judicial system does not punish people for what they might do in the future. It punishes them for what they already did. I believe Reed Walters is going to retry him in juvenile court - Good! That's appropriate. These particular charges, and adult court, are NOT. - Laura]
I have been listening and looking up all the stories on the Jena 6. I believe they should be punished for what they did but it needs to fit the crime. They were involved in a fight and yes they beat up a student (lets forget that they are black and he is white, it’s 2007 and race should not be a factor anymore) but because of a fight they should not have their lives taken away. That’s ridiculous to try to charge them for attempted murder so I’m happy it has been reduced. It needs to be reduced more because aggravated assault does not fit what they did. It was assault and assault only. To give them the maximum because of race is un-humane. It’s childish and they don;t need the jobs they have if they are going to abuse them. If everyone who got beat up in a fight gets to send the person that beats them up to jail for life then there would be even more people in jail for the rest of their life for nothing. If they are going to jail for their life then the grown men that got in the fight with the teenagers at the barn party should go to jail for attepted murder. They were adults and those were kids. Now the photo shows him in the hospital the day of the fight and it shows nothing but a few bruises and a black eye. Everyone knows that the next day you end up looking far worse than it really is so please stop overexagerrating his bruises. It’s not accurate and it’s childish of you. And please stop refering to people by their race, it’s ignorant.
I’ve been following this story through this website (I think Laura has done an excellent job of trying to bring out the truth) and various others, yet I’m still trying to get a true grasp on what actually happened that day. I’ve heard no accounts of Justin having any other injuries other than those to his head/face. It’s hard for me to picture 6 people surrounding/causing injuries to his head ONLY. Does anyone know if he sustained injuries to his chest or body? Some accounts say this attack lasted for minutes, yet there was over 40 witnesses. Did they just “stand by and watch”? Who broke the fight up?
I saw Bailey (I think, pretty sure it was him) being interviewed on CNN; if I can pull up that video online I’ll post it on my next comment. According to him, he was not involved at all (this wasn’t the first time I heard that either; I’ve read on other news sites that at least 2 of the six claimed from jump that they did not participate). When the fight broke out (again, according to him), EVERYONE piled around (this does make sense; considering all the fights I’VE seen in high school, that’s what happens, someone yells “FIGHT”, and everyone runs over to see) . IF what he said was true, how can 40, or even 20, people piled around 1 person on the ground see who was kicking/throwing punches? If what he said was not true, I can’t picture 40 people standing at a distance watching someone on the ground being kicked for several minutes (”several minutes” comes from some posts of a few folks from Jena, at least they say).
Of these 40 witnesses, only 17 were called. Did each one specifically say they saw all 6 kicking, or did some witnesses indicate a couple of the six, and others indicate the remainder? I dunno, it’s frustrating trying to reconstruct it, based on what has been “proven” to be fact. Someone posted on another site that witness testimony has Bailey kneeling on the ground punching Barker, not kicking him. Roach, you’re the attorney here; if he did indeed punched instead of kicked, can he still be charged with aggravated battery, instead of assault or something else, even if he didn’t use a tennis shoe? Are human fists considered deadly weapons as well?
Someone, PLEASE shed some light. I can’t wait to see the 17 witness statements; hopefully it will help me better understand the sequence of events. I’m still having a hard time trying to place 6 athletes surrounding someone laying on the ground, and kicking the head ONLY. I can picture 4, with no room to spare, but 6 at once? Or did they take turns?
I just read the comment by cheesy hamburger posted on September 17th, 2007 at 1:32 am. Although I like to hear and respect everyone’s opinion I must stand strong on this. Number one we are no longer blacks. Seeing as you’re from Jena i’m not surprised you would we refer to us as such. I’m actually surprised you did not say colored. I am an African American female and I must say that we as African Americans do not hold grudges for the past but we do hold grudges for what is happening RIGHT NOW. These young men did not fight for their ancestors being slaves, they faught for the racisim and injustice they were facing in 2007, IN THIS DAY AND TIME. Lets review the facts that no one is really addressing to see if these young men should have been anything more than suspended.
1. The event started when an African-American young man asked the school’s principal if he could sit under a traditionally white only tree and was answered with “I don’t care where you really sit”
2. The next day the young man sat under the tree and was harassed.
3. the following day the young man and two of his friends once again sat under the tree in which was followed by the hanging of three nooses in the school’s colors.
4. The three white gentlemen that were responsible for the situation were suspened but the suspension was later over turned so they only stayed from school a couple of days which is wrong considering all three of the boys have criminal records and one has been expelled from another school before.
5. After the hanging of the nooses there became rising tension between the caucasions and african-americans in the school.
6. Due to the tension the DA comes to the school telling the african american students that “I can either be your friend or I can end you life with the stroke of a pen” (in which he has done)
7. Some caucasion male students beat up an african-american student.
8. In an effort to retaliate and after being called niggers the Jena 6 then beat up Justin Barker. As you can see Barker injuries were not as harsh as being stated and they really could not have been considering he attended a school event the exact same night of the incident.
With all that being said and to sum it up were ARE NOT angry for slavery, we ARE NOT angry for what happened to our families during the 60s, we ARE angry that it is 2007 and we have six young men that had never had criminal records and had bright futures ahead of them but they have been charged and arreseted for attempted second-degree murder for a fight that, if it would have taken place anywhere besides 4,000 in population, 85% Caucasion, Jena, LA, would have been considered a regular school fight and gotten the JENA 6 suspened for 3 weeks at the most. So please do not say we are holding grudges for what happened in the past. We are not holding a grudge at all. We are angry and stepping forth to fight the injustice and racism that is happening right here right now in 2007. How far have we really come?
It seems like these poor innocent boys wanted to sit under the tree, they are not innocent boys they are thug. There are plenty blacks and whites that sit under that tree it is bull all of it is. Whites and blacks get along with the exception of a view. Some of the Jena 6 went around being a bully to the white children picking on them wanting them to say the N word hitting them and knocking them around then when they would say it they would push or punch them it was a no win situation. It will be interesting to see how long they stay out of trouble, the will prove most of you wrong by thinking they are good boys. Mychal Bell is on probation maybe that had something to do with not getting out of jail. Watch out Jena he’s out of jail, let the trouble begin. He has a bad name in his neighborhood at least for alittle while they didn’t have to worry about 1 thug.. Maybe he can drive that new car yall bought his mom. Oh yeah the rims and all the extra’s you ordered hasn’t come in yet. Mrs. Bell you need to do the right thing for your son save that money for him. Shame on You……..If it had been 6 white boys and 1 black boy would you still be angry. It is never alright to put your hand or should I say your hand or shoes on someone. If everybody knew the whole truth I think it would change alot of minds. I was always taught it didn’t matter what someone said to you ignore it words can’t hurt you and it is never worth fighting over. If Mychal Bells mom had been there for him instead of doing things she should have not been doing or in jail or rehab maybe this would not have happened. I think she likes the money coming in. It’s really sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!She will have to answer for what she has done one day
Hi, I am a 41 year old Cherokee/Irish/Austrian Jew-American, since that is the way we are doing it these days. I consider myself a Native American or American, because…bingo, I was born in America, this is my native land. Most people who would meet me on the street would simply call me white…and they would be right, my skin is white. I will get back to that. I have in my family a Cherokee man, my great grandfather, who married a girl of LEGALLY immigrated Austrian Jews My Grandfather, a bit of an Archie Bunker, had a brother who surprise, married a black girl…when that sort of thing was not hip, and he wasn’t the first in the family. My cousins are black, I have black friends, I have black bandmates…all of whom I love dearly. My best friend in my youth was a black kid. I studied black music my whole life, and made it my own. I was the first white guy invited to perform at a historically exclusive black club in Baltimore, maybe the only one invited. So trust me when I say I am not prejudiced, I have everything in my family, even nut jobs…including myself, I am bi-polar. Get it? Now, with that said….I have issue as I read all of these listings in my sleepless night of curiosity concerning this case. Americans of all races have this arrogant need to label themselves as “something”-Americans. We are simply American’s my friends, if you would rather be somewhere else you have my permission. This form of self segregation is the root of all evil. Beware! Be brave, be Americans, proud, simple. Sure, be proud of your heritage…I am, but don’t let it define you. We are much more than that label we carry. In reading I have heard a lot of troubling words, words of fear, words of arrogance, words of truth….a familiar theme was weaving it’s way thru the postings…us against them. What white people can say, what they can’t say. What black people say, and how white people should handle that. I cannot remember any time when one of my family or friends or bandmates ever had a problem with me calling them black, or my ever being angry for them calling me white, or cracker for that matter…and they did. We were/are brothers, friends family. We ate together, we played together, we worked together with respect of each other and our collective as a whole. We cracked on each other, we had a sense of humor about all of the racists concerns from every corner…trust me, every group has their fanatics…most of them in my family. We had many serious conversations too that ran long in the night, it was beautiful, we are all so different, so many things to learn and understand. Too often in our time, as mentioned in other postings, well meaning groups of people make bad decisions on who to stand behind. This time there is no one to stand behind except the victim. Now you may argue who the victim is….there is the rub. What was done, as far as I understand from reading, this was a bunch of bad decisions made by a bunch of testosterone pumped young men, some with nasty habits and ideals on right and wrong. And let’s face it, they are kids…no older than my oldest child. Reasonable punishments would be appropriate, on all sides. One thing that sticks out is that the black/African-American (mocha, as I call my most dear elderly friend) kids were just as racist in their behavior and websites (myspace), as the white (should I be offended by that?) kids are reported to be, along with the rest of the town by everyone that wants to be offended and make a statement about how oppressed certain folks are, before even knowing what it is they are protesting about (mob mentality). Offended is the key word, and we must stop looking for things to be offended about. We are a country stuck in a politically correct muck of insecurity, unknowing, constant levels of offensiveness and mistrust with a little constant contradiction which in turn gives life to segregation, bigotry and distasteful behavior by all sides. Those among us (of all races, creeds and religions) that choose to be offended or find offensiveness and push it in all of our faces daily only breed more offensiveness. A wise man said, “if you want to be against racism, be pro integration…learn about each other, we are different and it is wonderful, yet beneath what you see-down to our smallest parts, we are all made of the same energy.” …oh yea, that was me. By the way, I am not a Christian…for what it is worth.
Yes, how far have you come? I’d really like to know. You say, and I quote:
“With all that being said and to sum it up were ARE NOT angry for slavery, we ARE NOT angry for what happened to our families during the 60s, we ARE angry that it is 2007 and we have six young men that had never had criminal records and had bright futures ahead of them but they have been charged and arreseted for attempted second-degree murder for a fight that, if it would have taken place anywhere besides 4,000 in population, 85% Caucasion, Jena, LA, would have been considered a regular school fight and gotten the JENA 6 suspened for 3 weeks at the most. So please do not say we are holding grudges for what happened in the past. We are not holding a grudge at all. We are angry and stepping forth to fight the injustice and racism that is happening right here right now in 2007. How far have we really come?”
I take issue with what you say about them never having criminal records. Did you do any research or did you do what so many do and that is spout off the first thing that comes to your mind? Mychal Bell has the following record:
Battery – Christmas Day (December 25), 2005
Criminal Damage to Property – July 25, 2006
Battery – September 2006
Criminal Damage to Property, ALSO September 2006
Oh, but he’s INNOCENT, right? I’ll keep that in mind. I love how you folks seem to think assaulting someone is the way to solve problems.
Roach, you got a lot of statistics there and you got a lot to say about black people. And I admit that black people (who are not all African-Americans, mind you) cause alot of damage to themselves especially with bottomfeeders like Al Sharpton and Islamofacists like the Nation of Islam. But answer me this: Why are almost all serial killers white? Why are white killers more likely to store your head in the fridge and eat your liver for dinner? Why are white kids more likely to shoot up their schools and classmates, join vampire cults, become cult leaders, join organizations like NAMBLA (the North American Man/Boy Love Association) boy, where are your statistics that say that tell why your people seem to have a monopoly on outright insanity? Huh?
Im not condoning the Jena 6 but Justin Barker was not hurt that badly for such intial serious charges. This whole thing, I think was a collosal mess orchestrated by racist adults.
I will never be able to prove it, but I honestly and truly believe that you’ve got people out here (both black and white) whose sole purpose in life is to create chaos. These kids in Jena just got caught in the middle.
Racist town, stupid people.
I’m glad the Jena 6 are charged though. There is a consequence for your actions, and if the game is staked against you, you have to be smarter than the game. Not more violent. This was all predictable and avoidable.
Skhinson:
I disagree with several things you have said:
“Number one we are no longer blacks. Seeing as you’re from Jena i’m not surprised you would we refer to us as such.”
If you will read the eye witness statements, notice that even the black students who filled out eye witness statements refer to some students as “black”. If we are expected to call the black community something different, shouldn’t the black community set an example by doing the same? Or is this just the same old bag of tricks, here? Black rappers can say the “n” word all day long, but when a white American says it, they should be sent to prison for it. Again, racism is a valid issue, but it must be addressed ALONG SIDE the “victim mentality” that many black Americans have. This is the only true way to resolve the entire issue and stop blaming each other.
And I take offense to your snazzy comment about my home town. The facts are coming out and people are starting to realize that the story isn’t what it originally appeared to be.
“These young men did not fight for their ancestors being slaves, they faught for the racisim and injustice they were facing in 2007, IN THIS DAY AND TIME.”
It looks to me like they fought for neither. Judging by the eye witness statements, it’s very evident that they fought because someone smarted off to one of them. The CORE issue of this whole thing is the potential injustice created by the DA charging these boys too harshly. I would LOVE for an investigative team (unbiased) to come in and compare all cases which Reed Walters has prosecuted in the past to see if racism does indeed factor into his judgment. If it DOES, then the black community has every right to be angry, and Reed Walters deserves to be punished in some way. If it DOESN’T, the black community will have little to say about the charges that were applied to these students being too harsh because of their color, in THIS particular instance.
“The next day the young man sat under the tree and was harassed.”
I have heard nothing to imply that the young man was harassed in any way. Where did you get this information from? It would be news to me.
” the following day the young man and two of his friends once again sat under the tree in which was followed by the
hanging of three nooses in the school’s colors.”
Correction: Only TWO nooses were hung on the tree. If it WERE three, I’d be more convinced these guys were up to no good.
“The three white gentlemen that were responsible for the situation were suspened but the suspension was
later over turned so they only stayed from school a couple of days which is wrong considering all three of the boys have criminal records and one has been expelled from another school before.”
Correction: The three white BOYS (not gentlemen) were suspended for 3 days then received in school suspension for, reportedly, at least two weeks. The principal recommended expulsion but the school board voted 9-1 to overturn the principal’s decision.
“Due to the tension the DA comes to the school telling the african american students that “I can either be your friend or I can end you life with the stroke of a pen” (in which he has done)”
The DA spoke to the entire school in an assembly. Some say he was looking at the black students when he said it, but some say he wasn’t. Either way, there is little to prove WHO he was looking at, and it would be very easy to make assumptions about this. When asked awhile back about him looking at the black students, Walters says at one point he WAS looking at some of the black students close to the front row because they were being loud and not listening to him.
“In an effort to retaliate and after being called niggers the Jena 6 then beat up Justin Barker. As you can see Barker injuries were not as harsh as being stated and they really could not have been considering he attended a school event the exact same night of the incident.”
Mychal Bell is the only person who filled out an eye witness statement saying Justin Barker said “nigger”. He also says he was near the scene of the crime trying to HELP Barker and was within arm’s reach, yet he never points out the names of the guys kicking Barker. Very strange. Additionally, one female black student wrote DETAILS about the altercation that preceeded the beating. She says Justin Barker flipped Mychal Bell the middle finger, but she never says ANYTHING about the supposed racial slur aimed at her own race. Don’t you think she’d mention this in her statement? I’m not totally convinced Barker didn’t say “nigger”, but I strongly lean towards him not.
And yes, Barker could have been hurt ALOT!!! worse than he was. That is beside the point. Think about this: Someone knocks on your door, you answer the door, they pull out a gun and shoot at you, the bullet whizzes by you and scrapes your ear. The culprit is arrested, you go to an outpatient clinic and have some stitches to repair your ear.
Would you think attempted murder charges would be sufficient for this person who shot at you? So gauging the success of the attackers’ ability to do bodily harm has little bearing (in my opinion) on what the charges should be.
“we ARE angry that it is 2007 and we have six young men that had never had criminal records
and had bright futures ahead of them but they have been charged and arreseted for attempted second-degree murder for
a fight”
You have been factually proven wrong on this one. Bell has FOUR priors (read what the guy said above). The others we DO NOT KNOW because their juvenile records are still sealed. Some have turned 18 since this incident, though. You can go to smalltownpapers.com and click on “The Jena Times” below, then go down to the search engine on that page and type “Carwin Jones”. If you thumb down the list of papers he is mentioned in, you’ll stumble across one that says he was arrested on October 23rd of 2006 for aggravated battery, 2 months before the Justin Barker beating. So no, you’re theory about them having an unblemished record is far from the truth. In fact, their past and the eye witness statement show a clear propensity for violence for most of them.
I consider you part of a serious issue here. People are so misinformed that they angrily spout of completely inaccurate statements about this case, despite all of the information being available online to prove you wrong. If you feel so passionately about this case, take the time to read news articles in the Alexandria Town Talk, The Jena Times, and thumb through the eye witness statements. If you need links I can provide them for you.
Wow…What a joke! It doesn’t seem like we’ve come very far in this country. More like we’ve gone in a circle. This is less about race and more about plain violence and anger. Virtually all of the kids involved in this have some kind of previous history with crime or violence. If they were upstanding kids who had been raised properly they would have handled themselves better and not “reacted” to or engaged when “the other side” acted. But that kind of restraint and control is becoming less common in our society. It’s like putting candy in front of a toddler and saying “don’t touch”. These kids are very angry and are attracted to violence and alway will be. It’s in their programming – news, video games, t.v. shows (Sopranos, Dexter, CSI), community/neighborhood…. I mean look at the reaction it’s sparking across the country. It starts with one kid wanting to sit under a tree and ends with protestors, court hearings, Al Sharpton(he’s everywhere), bloggers, analysts, anchors, attornys, did I mention Sharpton… I mean kids are wearing Jena six t-shirts in private schools in Sacramento for cryin’ out loud.
The only ones who seem to be in the clear are the black kids who asked to sit under the tree. They knew they were poking the bear when they persisted and continued to sit under the tree. They were just trying to make a statement – mature or not. Of course they knew there would be some kind of reaction. But the punks who hung the nooses are the real idiots in all of this. I, as a white American, am embarassed. This reflects on the kids parents as much as it does themselves. Then we get to watch all of the “adults” act like kids themselves. Including the “press”. This is just another symptom of how the whole world is just spinning out of control.
I’ll put money on it that almost all of these kids are products of single parent homes. Cause/Symptom?
HI “FROM JENA,” I see you are at it again.
TO EVERYONE ELSE,
I JUST WANNA GIVE INSIGHT ON THESE FORMULAS REGARDING THE “BLACK LIVING SITUATIONS” IN AMERICA TODAY AND THESE AMAZING (INFLATED) STATISTICS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE SO INTELLIGENTLY CONJURED UP (OR CUT AND PASTED FROM ANOTHER WEBSITE). ACCORDING TO SOME, ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS WE ARE SO VIOLENT AND AGGRESSIVE IS BECAUSE WE ARE MOSTLY IN POVERTY, UNEDUCATED, BITTER, ETC:
WELL HERE’S MY FORMULA:
-I AM A YOUNG BLACK FEMALE (and ok with being classified as such)
-I was raised in Middle-Class America (Chicago near the South Suburbs)
-I went to a large, inner-city, diverse, public high school and graduated in the top 10 percentile of my class
-I was raised by BOTH affluent parents who are college-degreed and collectively accumulate $175k annual salaries
-I am a 3rd generation college graduates
-My 3 sisters and I attended a predominately White University (parents paid/scholarships) and recieved bachelor’s degrees in various fields of interest
-My Family owns property and cars
-I have been fortunate enough to have traveled all around the world
-I have a credit score of 750
-I am gainfully employed with no children
-Oh yeah, I have never been convicted of a crime
HOWEVER, IF I SAW A WHITE PERSON HANGING A NOOSE FROM A TREE OR UTTERING THE “N” WORD, I WOULD BEAT THE F…U…C…K OUT OF ‘EM. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.
What statistical facts do you have for ME?
ms_vaughn01@yahoo.com
tmoore….
In your post you say “WE ARE SO VIOLENT AND AGGRESSIVE IS BECAUSE WE ARE MOSTLY IN POVERTY, UNEDUCATED, BITTER, ETC”. Yet you didn’t grow up in that environment. Your anger and sense of entitlement are at the forefront. It is black Americans such as yourself that have the opportunities to help change things, yet you seem to be fanning the flames instead of putting out the fire.
Your final statement….”HOWEVER, IF I SAW A WHITE PERSON HANGING A NOOSE FROM A TREE OR UTTERING THE “N” WORD, I WOULD BEAT THE F…U…C…K OUT OF ‘EM. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.”….spouts nothing but anger and hatred which does all of us, including yourself, no good.
WE MUST BRIDGE THE GAP. WE ARE TEARING OURSELVES APART WITH HATRED AND ANGER. WHEN WILL IT STOP?!
tmoore:
Listen, lets speak frankly, okay? Violence, whether to a LARGE degree or to a small degree, seems to run a little more rampant in the black community. That’s looking at it statistically. That’s not saying all black Americans are violent and all white Americans are not; that is far from the truth. But every culture has its own issues to work through. This is one thing the African American culture needs to address. I strongly believe that racism DOES have an adverse affect on the black community. I also believe that often white Americans get the entire problem dumped in their lap because of the racism issue. I’ve said this many times on here, but WE CAN SOLVE SEVERAL ISSUES within the black AND white community if we just work together and take responsibility for our own actions. Instead of blaming the entire issue on the “white system”, you can realize that YOU ARE mostly in control of your life, not white America. In Louisiana, ANYONE who meets a criteria is capable of going 4 years of college for FREE. This includes black students. Everyone has an opportunity to better themselves.
If the white community finally says “alright, we have a racism problem and we plan to do something about it”; if the black community finally says “alright, we have to emphasize education more in our culture to give our young black Americans a chance to move away from violence and into a safer life”, then this country would be SO much better.
I guess what I’m saying is, you can’t dump the entire problem in white America’s lap, because white America’s just gonna dump it right back in yours. And who gets hurt more when this happens? YOU DO! Listen to Bill Cosby. He’s a great black American leader, not just a dried up comedian.
THE RACISM HAS TO STOP, AND SO DOES THE VICTIM MENTALITY. The black community needs some strong figures like Cosby to step up and hold the hands of young black Americans and show them “this is the way to go”. Right now it seems their role models are limited to sports athletes and rap music artists.
And to respond to your last comment about beating the f*ck out of somebody, THAT is exactly what I am talking about. If everyone in your culture feels this way, then we have a serious problem. You can’t resort to violence over something like that. You know? When someone calls me a liar, that probably pisses me off as much as the “n” word pisses you off!!! I get VERY mad, because I try to be an honest person, BUT I DON’T RESORT TO VIOLENCE to show my disagreement. Maybe you should consider other alternatives and be a good representative of your family, your town, and your race! It starts with one person at a time. Change is infectious. Preach peace, not violence.
I’m at work and I have a very busy day ahead of me so I will TRY to be brief. I am glad you have so conveniently come up with a synopsis of the “Black Problem” in the United States. Now lets see, the “White Problem”…So what do we [U.S.] have to do to get Whites to stop suicide stunts? Serial killing? School shootings? Internet predetors? Teen pregnancy(YUP, believe it or not), Majority welfare recipients? Guess we all got some work to do. Since we have established that there is really no set formula or lifestyle associated with Black anger and aggression, we are now suggesting that it is some innate drive and essentially we are holding ourselves back? LOL, shut the [] up FROM JENA! I am convinced that you are an idiot and you got a lot of intellectual maturing to do. Realistically, I bet you don’t even know any Black people. Rappers and athletes as role models? You have got to be kidding me, that is such a freaking insult. All you know of Blacks is what you see on BET and the news. I bet you will try to justify by thinking of some token Black friend that you have but save it cause I’ve heard it all before. I should have known that you didn’t know shyyt when you mentioned Bill Cosby! Have you ever read “Black Enterprise Magazine”? Probably not because there are plenty of role models in there (when he gets done reading this, he’s gonna go google it). Why the [] would anyone look up to Bill Cosby? Why, because he starred on a show that depicted a middle-class, African American family doing “well” in a White society??? Give me a freaking break! You should have never mentioned that. I had a little respect for you at first but now you have lost all of that. On the other hand, it’s not your faught that you have not been exposed enough, you are FROM JENA and all.
As a matter of ironic fact, my father and I had a conversation similar to this just recently. Take note that he is a very successful man as he owns his own business and investments. He was talking to my 17 year old sister about societal structures and the issue came up of Blacks being victimized and suppressed by White supremacy. I said “Dad, you are successful, you paved your own way, you educated yourself. Why are you making excuses for the ones who didn’t? They had the same opportunities that you did.” My dad said some powerful shyyt to me. He said “Yes they did, but you are to never FORGET!” He was referring to all the bull that Black people have gone through from the past until now. You shouldn’t use this knowledge to victimize yourself, but you are never to forget it! No you shouldn’t constantly talk about it and bring it up but you are to NEVER FORGET IT. No you don’t use it to attack people or hurt them but you are never to forget it. THAT’S WHY I WILL [] SOMEONE UP FOR DISRESPECTING MY PEOPLE! ONCE YOU DO THAT, YOU ARE INVITING AN AZZ WHOOPING! PERIOD.
ISOLATEWEST1, I didn’t have to grow up in poverty or unfortunate circumstances but I still live it and understand it. Those of you seeking true answers should really talk to an African American Socialist/Psychologist and have them give their opinion of what 400+ years of enslavement and suppression will do to a people, their image and their self-esteem. There is a huge difference between excuse and rationale. Even my Dad, who is far from a typical statistic of a Black man who grew up on the Southside of Chicago, can realize the root of the Black struggle (YES there is a freakin root!). Take my Dad, an educated Black man who has no reason to make up any excuses, can see that there is something out there that all Black people should be acknowledging about OUR struggle. I don’t know not one Jew who will forget the Holocaust and they better freaking not! I am sure that that is why my household is so rich in African American culture and my family goes to Africa once a year. I have been to the Prisons in Illinois and seen the racial desparities that exist in there. I have pretty much seen it all. That’s why I can walk down the street in a White or Black neighborhood and not be afraid of shyyt! Because I understand, plus I got the best of both worlds.
Any comments or responses to this note hit me on YAHOO, I’m done with this stupid website, this shyyt is no use!
ms_vaughn01@yahoo.com
[edited for profanity - Laura]
Tmoore:
No, I prefer addressing your issues in a public forum:
“I am glad you have so conveniently come up with a synopsis of the “Black Problem” in the United States. Now lets see, the “White Problem”…So what do we [U.S.] have to do to get Whites to stop suicide stunts?…”
I never said the white community was without fault, nor did I lambaste the black community for all of it’s faults.
“we are now suggesting that it is some innate drive and essentially we are holding ourselves back?”
Again, I think racism can be a crutch TO A SMALL EXTENT, to the black community, but YES, I think many in the black community have a victim mentality that needs to be addressed. They have to realize they can achieve alot more than they think they can. They just need positive role models (like Bill Cosby) to show them the way.
“I am convinced that you are an idiot and you got a lot of intellectual maturing to do.”
You’re entitled to your opinion. I’ll reserve mine of you.
“Realistically, I bet you don’t even know any Black people. ”
I have no CLOSE friends who are black that I hang out with after work. I do have people I am close with at work who are black, and have lots of acquaintances who are black. FYI
“Rappers and athletes as role models? You have got to be kidding me, that is such a freaking insult. ”
It’s difficult to avoid insulting someone such as yourself. Everything I have said was blown out of proportion. No, I’m not reading black themed magazines every day, no I’m not watching BET everyday. So I am not the definitive answer on what kind of black role models are available these days; but I do see what I see.
“I should have known that you didn’t know shyyt when you mentioned Bill Cosby!”
I’ve actually listened to Bill Cosby once or twice in front of a crowd talking about the black community and helping his people out. I was quite impressed. Maybe people should be listening to him instead of Jesse & Al.
“Have you ever read “Black Enterprise Magazine”? Probably not because there are plenty of role models in there (when he gets done reading this, he’s gonna go google it).”
No, I haven’t. Have you ever read Maxim?
“Why the f…u…c…k would anyone look up to Bill Cosby? Why, because he starred on a show that depicted a middle-class, African American family doing “well” in a White society???”
This shows me that you don’t even know what Bill Cosby has done since he left that show. I’m not talking about the example he set on his show, I”m talking about the issues he has spoken about ON STAGE since he retired from the Bill Cosby Show. Many things he have said seem profound and logical to me. So maybe YOU DON’T know everything about your culture like you think you do.
“I had a little respect for you at first but now you have lost all of that.”
That’s fine. Others who aren’t throwing curse words and angry comments at me DO respect me so no harm done.
“Yes they did, but you are to never FORGET!” ”
Your dad did make a profound comment. I agree with every LETTER in that statement. It doesn’t touch on the point I have made, though. I’ve mentioned nothing about forgetting the past and just “getting over it”. We are all impacted by our heritage to a certain degree.
“THAT’S WHY I WILL F**K SOMEONE UP FOR DISRESPECTING MY PEOPLE!”
Angry, prone to violence. Your dad seems to be a very level headed man. I’m sure he’d be disappointed in you.
I was really hoping you would email me privately *sigh* So I came back on this website to hear from you FROM JENA. I actually like you and I finally agree with you (for the most part). It seems like you might actually get it. FYI, I have read Maxim and lots of other magazines for that matter. My favorite Magazine is Martha Stewart Living. You see, I have to read magazines. I work in the area of Marketing for a high-end Magazine in Chicago. Most of my readers are White, wealthy, male socialites in the upper tax bracket, and I mean upper! (That’s why I feel I have the best of both worlds).
To be honest with you, I’ve heard many of your same views before, it’s just a harder pill to swallow when coming from someone not Black.
Didn’t mean to disrespect you, pardon me. Hopefully you can forgive a stranger. I let my emotions get the better of me. You are VERY intelligent, I hope you plan to use that to make a difference. But seriously, I am going to stop commenting on this website because the program administrator keeps emailing me about my french. LOL.
Here is a smile for you FROM JENA
tmoore, it’s clear that you are an extremely bright and articulate professional woman, in fact probably better educated than I am. I hope that you’ll stick around and just use other ways of expressing yourself as I’m sure you have a lot to contribute to the conversation.
I started cracking down on profanity and other policy violations because it always seems to escalate – it got so bad at one point that I ended up turning comments off entirely. This is obviously a very emotional issue for a lot of people (including me, for reasons I’ve stated in other posts) and I’d like to be able to keep the comments open and have reasonable discussions so everybody can benefit.
TMoore:
Now is this the same person? Wow!
Well I am glad we are in agreement on alot of fronts. My whole theme about life is…people trying to focus on their similarities instead of their differences. We have all of these denominations of Christianity where it seems people are at odds about the little idiosyncrasies, when 90% of our beliefs are the same! We have all of these cultures where the same things occur. Let’s face it: humans naturally tend to see differences. Differences catch the eye. Differences challenge you, sometimes they challenge alot of things about you. To interpret and conform to all different things around you is to be inhuman. We all have to challenge ourselves and try to empathize enough to understand people different than us. Look at us? I grew up in a small hick town full of mostly rednecks and hard working people. You grew up in a large city with upscale neighborhoods and most likely many well-to-do people around you. We’re different ethnicities. Yet a little bit of empathizing allowed us to understand each other.
I know that deals with a MUCH larger issue than the Jena 6, but that’s how I feel. And I’m sorry that I do not know as much about the black culture as I do. As I’m sure you and the ENTIRE WORLD knows by now, Jena does not have a large African American community. Point me to some interesting reads and I’d be glad to take a gander. I also understand that the black culture is FORCED to understand the white culture in this country, since you are a minority. I know I can never understand that. But I can try to empathize as much as I can. Thank you for your compliments. I want to make a big difference one day, and I hope that is what I am doing as we speak.