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	<title>Comments on: An Anti-Iraq War Patriot</title>
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	<link>http://pursuingholiness.com/2008/04/an-anti-iraq-war-patriot/</link>
	<description>pursuing holiness, following politics</description>
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		<title>By: What I&#8217;m Reading Instead of Working &#187; Pursuing Holiness</title>
		<link>http://pursuingholiness.com/2008/04/an-anti-iraq-war-patriot/comment-page-1/#comment-43919</link>
		<dc:creator>What I&#8217;m Reading Instead of Working &#187; Pursuing Holiness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuingholiness.com/2008/04/16/an-anti-iraq-war-patriot/#comment-43919</guid>
		<description>[...] Somebody&#8217;s setting up an insanity defense for the peace thugs. (I wouldn&#8217;t have hit you, baby, but you burned the dinner again! So it&#8217;s really all your fault.) As for me, I still question their patriotism. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Somebody&#8217;s setting up an insanity defense for the peace thugs. (I wouldn&#8217;t have hit you, baby, but you burned the dinner again! So it&#8217;s really all your fault.) As for me, I still question their patriotism. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Neufeld</title>
		<link>http://pursuingholiness.com/2008/04/an-anti-iraq-war-patriot/comment-page-1/#comment-43859</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuingholiness.com/2008/04/16/an-anti-iraq-war-patriot/#comment-43859</guid>
		<description>I would add a note here.  I agree on your points regarding protest, i.e. the right way to oppose the war.  I oppose the war on strategic grounds.  IOW I believe we need fight terrorism; the question is not whether to but but &lt;em&gt;where&lt;/em&gt;, &lt;em&gt;when&lt;/em&gt;, and &lt;em&gt;how&lt;/em&gt;, and the issue is which of those options would be more effective.  That&#039;s a bit different from &quot;this is too much trouble, let&#039;s go home.&quot;  That&#039;s why I have so much annoyance with the significant percentage of the public, according to polls, who are swayed by the most recent news from Iraq.  The number of casualties today or this week is minor tactical stuff.

Many war opponents have been very angry with the current congress, led by Democrats, for not putting an end to the war.  (I know, to war supporters, this probably sounds odd!)  But a &lt;em&gt;responsible&lt;/em&gt; pullout has to be planned and carefully executed, which means it requires both the executive and the legislative branch.  Both Clinton and Obama have been criticized for votes for funding after declaring opposition to the war.  Yet votes to cut off funding without some kind of withdrawal plan would be extremely irresponsible.  A patriot can advocate a strategic withdrawal, in my view, but not instant chaos.

Finally on our view of the military, I want to point out that we need a military under civilian control.  I think liberals and conservatives should be able to agree on that.  Barring truly illegal orders, and &quot;I don&#039;t like it&quot; doesn&#039;t add up to &quot;illegal&quot;, the military needs to be an instrument to carry out the policies decided by the government.  If I were still in the military, President Bush would be my commander-in-chief, and it would be my task to carry out his orders.  What I think about them politically wouldn&#039;t matter.  That is where being anti-military is dangerous and stupid.  (I&#039;ll give true pacifists a break, but only if they won&#039;t kill the murderer who is about to kill their family.)

Our military is doing its job, and doing an excellent job.  In fact, they have done substantially better than I thought they would in Iraq.  (I have no idea what people who thought this was going to be &lt;em&gt;easier&lt;/em&gt; were thinking.)  They should be thanked, supported in battle, and well cared for when they return.

OK, more than enough rambling for a comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would add a note here.  I agree on your points regarding protest, i.e. the right way to oppose the war.  I oppose the war on strategic grounds.  IOW I believe we need fight terrorism; the question is not whether to but but <em>where</em>, <em>when</em>, and <em>how</em>, and the issue is which of those options would be more effective.  That&#8217;s a bit different from &#8220;this is too much trouble, let&#8217;s go home.&#8221;  That&#8217;s why I have so much annoyance with the significant percentage of the public, according to polls, who are swayed by the most recent news from Iraq.  The number of casualties today or this week is minor tactical stuff.</p>
<p>Many war opponents have been very angry with the current congress, led by Democrats, for not putting an end to the war.  (I know, to war supporters, this probably sounds odd!)  But a <em>responsible</em> pullout has to be planned and carefully executed, which means it requires both the executive and the legislative branch.  Both Clinton and Obama have been criticized for votes for funding after declaring opposition to the war.  Yet votes to cut off funding without some kind of withdrawal plan would be extremely irresponsible.  A patriot can advocate a strategic withdrawal, in my view, but not instant chaos.</p>
<p>Finally on our view of the military, I want to point out that we need a military under civilian control.  I think liberals and conservatives should be able to agree on that.  Barring truly illegal orders, and &#8220;I don&#8217;t like it&#8221; doesn&#8217;t add up to &#8220;illegal&#8221;, the military needs to be an instrument to carry out the policies decided by the government.  If I were still in the military, President Bush would be my commander-in-chief, and it would be my task to carry out his orders.  What I think about them politically wouldn&#8217;t matter.  That is where being anti-military is dangerous and stupid.  (I&#8217;ll give true pacifists a break, but only if they won&#8217;t kill the murderer who is about to kill their family.)</p>
<p>Our military is doing its job, and doing an excellent job.  In fact, they have done substantially better than I thought they would in Iraq.  (I have no idea what people who thought this was going to be <em>easier</em> were thinking.)  They should be thanked, supported in battle, and well cared for when they return.</p>
<p>OK, more than enough rambling for a comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://pursuingholiness.com/2008/04/an-anti-iraq-war-patriot/comment-page-1/#comment-43845</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Then what are you doing quoting him out of context?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then what are you doing quoting him out of context?</p>
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		<title>By: nemo loris</title>
		<link>http://pursuingholiness.com/2008/04/an-anti-iraq-war-patriot/comment-page-1/#comment-43843</link>
		<dc:creator>nemo loris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuingholiness.com/2008/04/16/an-anti-iraq-war-patriot/#comment-43843</guid>
		<description>I teach his work in a university English department.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I teach his work in a university English department.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://pursuingholiness.com/2008/04/an-anti-iraq-war-patriot/comment-page-1/#comment-43840</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuingholiness.com/2008/04/16/an-anti-iraq-war-patriot/#comment-43840</guid>
		<description>And incidentally I doubt you know much about Samuel Johnson, the source of your &quot;scoundrel&quot; quote.  He was referring to false patriotism in that quote.  He was a complicated guy, and can just as easily be used to defend my position as yours:

&lt;blockquote&gt;A man sometimes starts up a patriot, only by disseminating discontent, and propagating reports of secret influence, of dangerous counsels, of violated rights, and encroaching usurpation.

   This practice is no certain note of patriotism. To instigate the populace with rage beyond the provocation, is to suspend publick happiness, if not to destroy it. He is no lover of his country, that unnecessarily disturbs its peace. Few errours and few faults of government, can justify an appeal to the rabble; who ought not to judge of what they cannot understand, and whose opinions are not propagated by reason, but caught by contagion. &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And incidentally I doubt you know much about Samuel Johnson, the source of your &#8220;scoundrel&#8221; quote.  He was referring to false patriotism in that quote.  He was a complicated guy, and can just as easily be used to defend my position as yours:</p>
<blockquote><p>A man sometimes starts up a patriot, only by disseminating discontent, and propagating reports of secret influence, of dangerous counsels, of violated rights, and encroaching usurpation.</p>
<p>   This practice is no certain note of patriotism. To instigate the populace with rage beyond the provocation, is to suspend publick happiness, if not to destroy it. He is no lover of his country, that unnecessarily disturbs its peace. Few errours and few faults of government, can justify an appeal to the rabble; who ought not to judge of what they cannot understand, and whose opinions are not propagated by reason, but caught by contagion. </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://pursuingholiness.com/2008/04/an-anti-iraq-war-patriot/comment-page-1/#comment-43839</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>At least you admit you&#039;re not a patriot and don&#039;t try to have it both ways.  Kudos for that much, at least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least you admit you&#8217;re not a patriot and don&#8217;t try to have it both ways.  Kudos for that much, at least.</p>
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		<title>By: nemo loris</title>
		<link>http://pursuingholiness.com/2008/04/an-anti-iraq-war-patriot/comment-page-1/#comment-43838</link>
		<dc:creator>nemo loris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pursuingholiness.com/2008/04/16/an-anti-iraq-war-patriot/#comment-43838</guid>
		<description>And what exactly is wrong with being unpatriotic? Given a choice between betraying my country and my friend I would betray my country every time. Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. And blaming democratic anti-war protests for people getting killed in Iraq is like blaming a temperance campaigner for drunk drivers killing themselves. America should get the hell out of Iraq. It has no business being there. It is waging an illegal and brutal war of occupation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what exactly is wrong with being unpatriotic? Given a choice between betraying my country and my friend I would betray my country every time. Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. And blaming democratic anti-war protests for people getting killed in Iraq is like blaming a temperance campaigner for drunk drivers killing themselves. America should get the hell out of Iraq. It has no business being there. It is waging an illegal and brutal war of occupation.</p>
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